1.7.0.6 Performance
1.7.0.6 Performance
Hey guys! New to the game but I’m getting the hang of things fairly quickly.
One thing I have noticed is how poorly the game seems to run in the mid-later stages and I was interested to read if there are some stock tweaks that can be applied to try and improve things.
My first game (1.7.0.6) was a 10x10, 700 stars (I think) with all races, and of course I started by running with absolutely everything turned on, max slider settings. Performance on the galaxy map, at all zoom levels, was at first perfectly fine but by the mid game stage it had become pretty bad, not climbing above 5FPS, and the scroll zoom was agonisingly choppy. Maximum zoom-in performance was okay – until there’s a battle whereupon the frame rate often drops to ~2-3FPS (during the ‘Guardian Fleet’ stage the entire game didn’t get above 5FPS at any zoom level). Virtually unplayable, which is a bit disheartening.
Turning off Civilian ships on the Galaxy map helps a bit, but not much. Turning down star density made no appreciable gains, neither did reducing nebula detail. Does mucking around with core affinity make any difference and if so what should I try? Anything else I can try?
AMD Phenom II 965 3.4GHz; 4GB RAM; HD6970.
One thing I have noticed is how poorly the game seems to run in the mid-later stages and I was interested to read if there are some stock tweaks that can be applied to try and improve things.
My first game (1.7.0.6) was a 10x10, 700 stars (I think) with all races, and of course I started by running with absolutely everything turned on, max slider settings. Performance on the galaxy map, at all zoom levels, was at first perfectly fine but by the mid game stage it had become pretty bad, not climbing above 5FPS, and the scroll zoom was agonisingly choppy. Maximum zoom-in performance was okay – until there’s a battle whereupon the frame rate often drops to ~2-3FPS (during the ‘Guardian Fleet’ stage the entire game didn’t get above 5FPS at any zoom level). Virtually unplayable, which is a bit disheartening.
Turning off Civilian ships on the Galaxy map helps a bit, but not much. Turning down star density made no appreciable gains, neither did reducing nebula detail. Does mucking around with core affinity make any difference and if so what should I try? Anything else I can try?
AMD Phenom II 965 3.4GHz; 4GB RAM; HD6970.
RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
I’ve had a look around at some Youtube let’s play vids and found a few that play Legends in the later stages of the game and all seem to run the game smoothly and fluidly, even during huge battles. Something clearly isn’t working properly because my average 5FPS in the mid stages is killing the game dead for me. My system is not old by any means and it has no trouble running anything else; running on all latest drivers as well.
Could it be because I used dual monitors (@1920x1200)?
I often leave the browser running in the background streaming music but turning that off seems to make no difference.
I stop the game and reload it, no change.
I don’t force affinity, all cores available.
At a loss to explain why it runs so badly.
Could it be because I used dual monitors (@1920x1200)?
I often leave the browser running in the background streaming music but turning that off seems to make no difference.
I stop the game and reload it, no change.
I don’t force affinity, all cores available.
At a loss to explain why it runs so badly.
RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
If you are in sector or galaxy view, performance when scrolling is poor if you are displaying long range scanners, the flashlight icon above the lower right panel. I have an old machine with no performance issues otherwise. As you say, maybe it is your dual monitor setup, or your video card.
Lonnie Courtney Clay
Lonnie Courtney Clay
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Lonnie Courtney Clay
Lonnie Courtney Clay
RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
I do leave LR overlays on, but the poor performance isn't just when scrolling; none of the ship icons move smoothly, they judder away like- well, like at 5fps. Will try without LR overlays and I will turn off the second monitor.
If a HD6970 can't hack something like DW then something is very, very wrong.
If a HD6970 can't hack something like DW then something is very, very wrong.
RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
ORIGINAL: defekt
I do leave LR overlays on, but the poor performance isn't just when scrolling; none of the ship icons move smoothly, they judder away like- well, like at 5fps. Will try without LR overlays and I will turn off the second monitor.
If a HD6970 can't hack something like DW then something is very, very wrong.
I had this "5fps ship moving/bouncing" problem when I bought a new laptop with a GeForce 650M GT card (quite good for a laptop). I played ok with my old card in a much slower PC so hardware was not the case here.
I tried to force core affinity to a single core since that fixed it for a guy here in the forums, but to no avail in my case. It all came to three things (sorry but I'm not completely sure which fixed it for me - although I'm inclined to number 3):
1. Motherboard chipset drivers update
2. Video card drivers update (use the laptop manufacturer ones if they exist)
3. Force game to use the dedicated video card instead the integrated one
I was going mad with this and I even started to write a post like this one to ask people about this. In a last reboot the game suddenly started to play very fluidly, even on a huge late-game (created with Quick Start). All was well but I couldn't understand which of the points above fixed it.
I'll bet it was number 3. In my case I have a nVidia dedicated card but also an IBM 4000 HD integrated one, and I used the nVidia software to force the game to use the dedicated card, but I guess you must have a similiar option, if you're using a laptop of course.
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RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
If this game can't work with a modern GFX card then I'm sorry but I'm more likely to dump the game. That can't be the case - utter madness if it is.
RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
Affinity tweaks (1, 2, all processors): No change.
Resolution drop: Minimal gains.
Run the game in compatibility mode (XP SP3): No change.
Disable extended desktop (1 monitor): No change.
Minimal in-game settings (no stars, no nebulae, no LR Scanner overlay, no other overlays): No change.
Mobo and GFX driver update (already where up to date): No change (expected).
I can even see the in-game dialogues drawing themselves when they appear, and the pop-ups don't slide nicely into view as I've seen them happen on YouTube vids, they chunk in one inch at a time and bring the whole action display to all but a halt as they do it.
If this really is shaping up to be a game that won't run properly on a fairly recent ATi GFX card then- well, we're wandering into refund territory because nowhere in any of the specs does it say that.
Resolution drop: Minimal gains.
Run the game in compatibility mode (XP SP3): No change.
Disable extended desktop (1 monitor): No change.
Minimal in-game settings (no stars, no nebulae, no LR Scanner overlay, no other overlays): No change.
Mobo and GFX driver update (already where up to date): No change (expected).
I can even see the in-game dialogues drawing themselves when they appear, and the pop-ups don't slide nicely into view as I've seen them happen on YouTube vids, they chunk in one inch at a time and bring the whole action display to all but a halt as they do it.
If this really is shaping up to be a game that won't run properly on a fairly recent ATi GFX card then- well, we're wandering into refund territory because nowhere in any of the specs does it say that.
RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
Are you playing on a laptop? Do you have 1 video card or 2 (1 dedicated and 1 integrated)?
I'm not familiarized with ATI cards but if you have two types of cards you could end up having the same problem as I did. After forcing the game to use my dedicated card all was well. At least that's what I think did it for me (since I also had my Mobo drivers up to date). Try in Tech Support if that doesn't make it for you.
I'm not familiarized with ATI cards but if you have two types of cards you could end up having the same problem as I did. After forcing the game to use my dedicated card all was well. At least that's what I think did it for me (since I also had my Mobo drivers up to date). Try in Tech Support if that doesn't make it for you.
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RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
No, it's a desktop; no on-board VGA.
RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
When I had an old PC (something like dual core pentium 4 + 2 Gb ram + Geforce 7600 GS) I had noticed, that changing color scheme from true color (32 bits) to high color (16 bits) gave game a boost of performance. Ingame graphics didn't suffer from these actions.
RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
Thanks for the suggestion. No appreciable gains.
RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
How many other empires were in the game? I have a 4ghz Phenom II, and things start getting pretty choppy for me in the mid game if I set the number of empires above 11 or have more than 400 stars. The number of empires in particular seems to be the real performance killer.
RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
It is actually in an 8x8 with 400 stars and 11 civs not 10x10 with 700 stars, so it's performing even worse than I'd first thought. Frame rate when zoomed right in with nothing happening is okay, so it can't be civ AI that's slowing anything down. Battles, sometimes even battle only between a couple of ships, and the galaxy view grind to the point of being unplayable (2-5fps). This isn't being played on a weak machine! It just sounds completely bizarre that much older machines are reportedly running this on far larger maps, with far more stars and with lots of civs.
RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
...none of the CPU cores goes over 30% whilst running the game even at its worst rate of performance (2fps) so it's not a CPU bottleneck issue either.
RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
Yeah that's really messed up, the game should be running way smoother.
Only thing I can think of is that your dual monitor setup is messing it up somehow.
Only thing I can think of is that your dual monitor setup is messing it up somehow.
RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
I tried disabling the other monitor, as listed above (along with many other changes): no change.
There isn't much left to try other than with another GFX card, which I don't have. (No onboard.)
All tests so far point toward draw rates thus DW running like sh_te on at least ATi 6x series cards. Not a great selling point.
There isn't much left to try other than with another GFX card, which I don't have. (No onboard.)
All tests so far point toward draw rates thus DW running like sh_te on at least ATi 6x series cards. Not a great selling point.
RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
GFX card is not necessary for DW. DW runs fine even on integrated graphics, because game doesn't use DX9 or something else. Graphics of DW is something similar to graphics, which draws different icons and effects in windows. It uses mostly CPU. These effects are hard for computing and cause these lags. You can't fix or reduce it. Only hopes, that in next game or addon coders force game engine to do all calculation with videocard.
RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
Read above. No core goes above 30% at any stage. It is also not unusual to have mobos that don't have onboard VGA, mine being one such model.
If DW is not written to work with some modern gear then that needs to be made abundantly clear on the required system specs otherwise some customers will have grounds to ask for a refund. This thread already probably stands as being a warning to prospective buyers, and those whose gear may not be affected may avoid the game entirely just in case. (Add to that the cost of the game and expansions if bought from Matrix and most will be more likely to not risk it.) Some technical input from the developers might serve to alleviate some of the ambiguity.
If DW is not written to work with some modern gear then that needs to be made abundantly clear on the required system specs otherwise some customers will have grounds to ask for a refund. This thread already probably stands as being a warning to prospective buyers, and those whose gear may not be affected may avoid the game entirely just in case. (Add to that the cost of the game and expansions if bought from Matrix and most will be more likely to not risk it.) Some technical input from the developers might serve to alleviate some of the ambiguity.
RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
I experienced the same issue as defekt, poor performance, especially in the later stages of the game although my system specs are above the recommended settings and the cpu usage stays at cozy 50% max. I am pretty sure that I tried everything to fix this problem and that I spent more time trying to solve this issue than actually playing the game.
After watching several lp's I got convinced and bought the whole DW package for about 80€; off course I am annoyed that there are some "unnecessary" hardware issues which are clouding my gaming experience. However defekt, I think that your critic is way too harsh.
Hardware issues are not an uncommon problem with videogames due to nearly endless possibilities to combine pieces of hardware in your machine. Testing your piece of software on every possible combination is impossible; it's especially problematic for a small developer like matrix games which has only 30+ employees (wikipedia). While I am sure that there are system specs which are obviously having problems with handling the game, I am also sure that the developers will address this problem, if it is a major one. If it's not, it would be grossly unfair to the majority of gamers to demand that the developers spend time on a problem which is only affecting a fraction of the gamer-base. I don’t think that DW was written with the intention to NOT run on certain modern gear but the problem follows from the points I made before.
So, while I understand your anger, because I share it in some points, I think you are clearly wrong when you try to bandwagon potential buyers into believing that DW will not run on their systems. It seems not to be a major problem thus, statistically speaking, the probability that DW will not work on their machines is fairly low.
And if you, potential buyer, are reading this thread at the moment, considering if ,after all, DW is worth buying or not; let me assure you that even if DW runs laggy on my machine I still love it, I love to play it and I think it's one of the most impressive games I ever saw. It is THE 4x game at the moment and due to its sheer brilliancy it will have an impact on the whole genre. So go, buy it, you know you want to.
After watching several lp's I got convinced and bought the whole DW package for about 80€; off course I am annoyed that there are some "unnecessary" hardware issues which are clouding my gaming experience. However defekt, I think that your critic is way too harsh.
Hardware issues are not an uncommon problem with videogames due to nearly endless possibilities to combine pieces of hardware in your machine. Testing your piece of software on every possible combination is impossible; it's especially problematic for a small developer like matrix games which has only 30+ employees (wikipedia). While I am sure that there are system specs which are obviously having problems with handling the game, I am also sure that the developers will address this problem, if it is a major one. If it's not, it would be grossly unfair to the majority of gamers to demand that the developers spend time on a problem which is only affecting a fraction of the gamer-base. I don’t think that DW was written with the intention to NOT run on certain modern gear but the problem follows from the points I made before.
So, while I understand your anger, because I share it in some points, I think you are clearly wrong when you try to bandwagon potential buyers into believing that DW will not run on their systems. It seems not to be a major problem thus, statistically speaking, the probability that DW will not work on their machines is fairly low.
And if you, potential buyer, are reading this thread at the moment, considering if ,after all, DW is worth buying or not; let me assure you that even if DW runs laggy on my machine I still love it, I love to play it and I think it's one of the most impressive games I ever saw. It is THE 4x game at the moment and due to its sheer brilliancy it will have an impact on the whole genre. So go, buy it, you know you want to.
RE: 1.7.0.6 Performance
Developers are usually not averse to listing performance issues where hardware is concerned, if not within the system requirement specs themselves within fora such as these. No such information exists for DW. Perhaps at least in a very small part, now it does. Disclosure shouldn’t be anything to be afraid of… or perhaps you would have preferred that I kept my specific specs a secret so as not to ruin the potential surprise for others?