The AI Cheats

[mmarquo]

Given the server problems, I decided to challenge the AI. It is ridiculous how the AI is coded to teleport units out of pockets and other acts of prestidigitaion. I understand giving the AI a mathematical computational advantage, but bending the rules and allowing it to perform such things which are contrary to the mechanics of the game is just plain ridiculous.

It seems that there are 2 sets of rules: rules for the human player, and rules for the AI. BTW, it also appears that the AI is not necessarily constrained by RR limits when it comes to moving production.

The server has been plagued by issues, there is no anti-cheat mechanism for PBEM games, and the AI cheats.

Sigh,

[:@]

[Tophat1815]

Looks like they walked out through the marshes then got the train at Tsuryupinsk.[:D] Either that or they bribed the Italians and Rumanians. So is the soviet ai more of a challenge? Note the pocket of 3 units to the northeast your incomplete southern pocket,see how those units didn't get on the transporterpad? Gotta complete those pockets or the ai gets the benefit of the way out.[;)]

[Erik Rutins]

Hi Marquo,

To help a bit, the server is now fixed and it does have anti-cheat mechanisms.

We'd need to look at a save for this - the AI does get to bend the rules in a few places, mainly to get around issues that an AI can't understand as well as a human, but by and large we've been closing loopholes that allow "teleportation" since release and making it stick as much to the same rules as a human player as possible. With that said, I've also seen reports before that looked odd, but when we reviewed them the AI was following the movement rules correctly.

Regards,

- Erik

[mmarquo]

Tophat,

The point is that given the constraints of available MPs (in zoc, crossing minor/major rivers, etc.) there is absolutely no way a human player would have been able to move these units more than 1 or 2 hexes; no way, no how, impossible according to the mechanics/rules for humans. Not being a tester I do not regualry save moves, but anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of the mechanics as applies to human players knows that what I showed above is otherwise impossible.

And as Erik just pointed out, "the AI does get to bend the rules in a few places, mainly to get around issues that an AI can't understand as well as a human." I submit that this in not "bending rules," rather there must be a set of code for humans and another set of code/rules for the AI. What is frustrating more than anything, is that if one wants to practice tactics, strategy against the AI, ones learns little that me maybe transported to a game against a human.

For me it is a waste of time, but I understand that for others it may be quite fun.

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

Hmmm... this was issue long time ago and fixed by Gary almost 12 months ago IIRC... I really didn't see this in long long time...


Leo "Apollo11"

[Erik Rutins]

Hi Marquo,

Actually the AI makes for excellent training and what we're trying to say is that this looks like it may be a bug or some unclosed loophole. As far as I know, the areas where the AI gets some advantages do not include tactical movement, but do include rail/strategic movement.

Regards,

- Erik

[mmarquo]

Well, here it is again; I am playing the most current update. I am trying a "streaming east" strategy of outrunning/bypassing units with motorized units and allowing cavalry/infantry to finish off pocketing. Laying a zoc on units and "almost' closing the pocket should be enough to not allow the units to move too far, unless of course the AI is endowed with teleportation power.

Marquo

[Joel Billings]

In these zoc to zoc tight moves, the AI is not supposed to be using warp moves. As Leo said, there was much work done on this months ago and we hadn't seen a report of it in quite a while. If you can post a save before the AI move where it repeats, we'll take a look. We really have tried to keep the AI from doing these kinds of impossible moves at times it seems the AI has a mind of its own. I'm moving this to tech support so Lee will log it if we get a save.

[blastpop]

Just an observation- this was moved to tech support- No, it really is a game play issue, like so many other concerns about patches and such. Tech support is really if you can't get the game to run or it crashes with a certain setup. I know I may be splitting hairs... but tech support, really???

[Erik Rutins]

Yes - the tech support forum is and always has been for any kind of bug or technical support. If you find a potential issue with the game, whether it's crashing or a game rule doesn't seem to be working properly, this is the place to post it.

Regards,

- Erik

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Yes - the tech support forum is and always has been for any kind of bug or technical support. If you find a potential issue with the game, whether it's crashing or a game rule doesn't seem to be working properly, this is the place to post it.

Regards,

- Erik

Erik,

I have to say (with the utmost sincerity) that your cool, calm and professional defense of your baby, your apparent online presence at all hours, and your tireless responses to all manner of queries and complaints over what must feel like endless months is truly impressive.

While you and I may disagree on many points, I have really come to admire and respect the way you handle the challenge and it is (ironically) a major reason why I for one have not given up on the game.

Hopefully, you took Sunday off and will read this on Monday!

Markus

[mmarquo]

Joel,

I'd like to echo Markus' sentiments. Thanks.

I may not be able to take the time or remember to save every move when I am playing the AI. However, it a tester wanted to see if this is repeatable, if I may suggest simply "almost" closing the pocket and see what the AI does.

Thanks again,

Mark

[Erik Rutins]

Thank you guys, I do appreciate that. [8D]

[elmo3]

ORIGINAL: Marquo

Joel,

I'd like to echo Markus' sentiments. Thanks.

I may not be able to take the time or remember to save every move when I am playing the AI. However, it a tester wanted to see if this is repeatable, if I may suggest simply "almost" closing the pocket and see what the AI does.

Thanks again,

Mark

You can turn on autosave and then you don't need to remember.

[Palmer3]

the server is now fixed and it does have anti-cheat mechanisms.

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Thank you guys, I do appreciate that. [8D]

He read it on Sunday

[blastpop]

I'm sorry if I came across as somewhat harsh. Yet I still respectfully disagree with Erik [:)]

[heliodorus04]

This one is pretty amazing...

Through ZOCs, swamps, across rivers, across lake Ladoga, into a port in enemy ZOC (via Finland at the no-move), through more rivers, swamps, and ZOC.





The only question to ask is why didn't it just take every division? Why leave 2 or 3 behind?

[elmo3]

If you have the save before the move please send it to me and I'll take a look.

[heliodorus04]

Before the Soviet move?
Do I zip and attach, or is there an e-mail address to send the raw file?