1.05.59 rule changes more German nerfs?

[ComradeP]

katza is in 43 I am in 44.

He is alrdy in trouble and 76 mm army is 7.5 million strong and not over 9 million as Kamils was. I held the front until 44. You cant defend terrain, because as Katza alrdy has stated and Tarhunnas has also the game is 100% based on a morlae time line, nt and in game results time line. Once your morale tanks its over.

I had 100's of forts, read the hole AAR not the end.

The forts as Katza nd Tarhunnas have stated are usless during 44 and almost usless during 43. Forts during 42 and 43 just keep the Russian player from attriting you do death over the hole front.

You cant defend terrain with out forts after late 42.

You got know idea what your talking about clearly. defending is easy to a point. Once the morale timeline is reached and IF the russian player built the right units your in trouble and your helpless.

Your opponent, at least in Kamil's case, had very significant trouble with getting anywhere until 1944 due to the massive carpet of fortified zones initially and you turtling (as well as, probably, some mistakes with building the army until 1944), but you're convinced that the Soviets will be in Berlin way before their historical timeframe, even though in one of the games you use as evidence to support your theories, that is quite unlikely to happen.

The game is also not based on a morale timeline. You continue to confuse morale with national morale, or rather: insist they're more or less the same thing per definition. That's more true for the Soviets than for the Germans most of the time.

You also complain when the Soviets withdraw a significant distance or turtle, but you use those strategies yourself and accept them for the Axis it seems.

Your points about the Axis being doomed in the sense that they will lose by default doesn't correspond with even some of your own experiences. I'd agree that the Axis face a very difficult time later in the war, but that doesn't mean they're doomed per default.

Whenever even the slightest change is made to the Axis, it's an "uber nerf bat patch" aimed at ruining the game for the Axis in some way.

[Encircled]

Looks fair to be honest, though that will obviously depend on your standpoint.

I have three games on the go at the moment

April '42 as Soviet (got creamed by March Madness)
T6 joint game
T92 as axis (slow game that I took over that has been going since 1.04)

Realistically, they all need to restart, don't they?

[vinnie71]

But am I correct to think that the reduction of German CV is only on the attack and not for defensive purposes? That would at least allow the Germans to stabilise their fronts rather than counterattacking in March.

[Flaviusx]

Offworlder, that is correct.

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Offworlder

But am I correct to think that the reduction of German CV is only on the attack and not for defensive purposes? That would at least allow the Germans to stabilise their fronts rather than counterattacking in March.

That's correct.

[Baelfiin]

Yeah its offensive CV only Offworlder.

[JAMiAM]

Damn...Flavio thread ninja'd me by 10 seconds...[:@]

[Baelfiin]

heheh

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

heheh

Et tu, Scotti?[;)]

Like Maxwell Smart would say..."Missed it by...*that*...much!"

[vinnie71]

Gee that was quick......................[;)]

So that means that basically if a German player has some reserves, he can easily substitute burned out units at the front with reserves and still stop the Red Army cold, setting them up for a counterattack once the mud turns run out. Interesting........

In a way makes the capture of Leningrad in '41 more important in order to create a pool of reserve infantry divisions.

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Offworlder

Gee that was quick......................[;)]

So that means that basically if a German player has some reserves, he can easily substitute burned out units at the front with reserves and still stop the Red Army cold, setting them up for a counterattack once the mud turns run out. Interesting........

In a way makes the capture of Leningrad in '41 more important in order to create a pool of reserve infantry divisions.

Undeniably, it will make the Axis 1942 Winter/Spring recovery period more difficult. However, that is clearly the intent, since they were recovering too fast and immediately. Even factoring out "March Madness" it does make it more difficult for the Axis to conduct morale-building attacks during the pre-Summer months. This is what I feel to be the biggest hit, since IMO "March Madness" is manageable by the Soviets, if they would just play out the end of the Winter Counteroffensive with a bit more finesse. But, that is another story...

[Flaviusx]

James, nah, that's not the biggest hit.

The biggest hit is that it kind of cripples the whole blizzard runaway strategy for the Germans. They gave up all that real estate banking on the fact they could recapture it come March. Now they can't count on that, and will likely only retake the lost ground in May and June. The Soviets will be in a much better position to consolidate their blizzard gains -- not in the hysterical sense that Pelton is saying of laying down a maginot line that can't be cracked a la 1.04, but at least having a nice buffer zone to absorb the first shock of the summer 42 offensive.

Now, I know you don't believe in a blizzard runaway for the Axis, but that's just you. [:D]

[Flaviusx]

Rules clarification -- I had misunderstood the tank army change as only incorporating a mech bonus. They actually have both an admin and a mech bonus. So they are very much worth building, at least for your mech units.

I'm still liking my cavalry shock armies, though.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Pelton, you asked me some narrow and specific questions. I gave you narrow and specific answers. You don't have all the facts on hand. I'm trying to fill in the blanks here, but you're simply ignoring my points.

Nor is any Soviet player getting 120k men/turn in 42 now. They're lucky to crack 110k.

You've convinced yourself that we are back to 1.04. Now you need to convince everybody else. The only way to do this is by playing the bloody game.

I asked you just what I knew I needed to know. The cost of rebuilding what has been the average losses during snow turns per 1,05.
The games have basicly played out all them same during March and some like myself keep hitting in spring.

Ok getting 110k so only 1.26 million extra hehehe

I beleive I have played more then anyone esle before 1.05 and during 1.05. So playing is not an issue.

I know how the system works, Germans do something historically possible and get nerfed each patch patch after patch.

Then 2by3 can't understand why only a handfull of games get completed, hmm less then a handful. They can't understand why poeple keep dropping out, hmm

Its the same old German nerf beat down patch after patch. There is still talk of nerfing the germans when the retreat during blizzard WTH is wrong with you poeple, just have the dam computer play the game, because thats what you based 90% of these screwball patchs on.

Then the player base is stuck playing each nerf beat down patch. Then another boat load of players quit because of the German in the box BS. They find its a cake walk playing the Russian side and next to impossible playing the german side and move on hoping someone makes a game what haves a few what ifs in it for the german side.

I knew 1.04 was a joke as soon as that was released and it was proven to be a disaster, russians winning in 43 lol
I knew 1.05 was good and poeple got back to playing, it needed a little tweak.
I can see 1.06 is a joke. I have clearly made my case why as I did with 1.04

You can't forse the German side back into a box because some poeple planned ahead and did an offensive that is 100% historically possible.

It makes the game a bore PLUS cranking up the Russian side will simply make the game WWI on the eastern front.

its the same old nightmare and I can't beleive 2by3 put out another way over board patch.

A tweak was needed not another Red Fanboy patch.

[vinnie71]

For me, March was always consolidation time as the Axis. Only minor counterattacks and preparation for summer offensives. The point is that now, from my perspective, the Axis have to think defensively for longer and possibly be ready to give up some real estate to 'straighen the line'. Either that or just pincer soviet forces that threaten vital areas like Smolensk or Bryansk. Once the Germans recover mobility in summer, I guess that even in human vs human games, the Soviets will be hard put to preserve all their blizzard gains.

One thing that seems to be imperative for the Axis is to be ready to launch multiple offensives in at least two areas of the map in summer '42. Putting all the eggs in one basket by doing one massive offensive just allows the Soviet side to concentrate and counterattack. And it is perfectly feasable to launch two offensives at once both because once the rail network is repaired, supplies are not that much of a problem and because in '42 the Germans do have enough armour to conduct multiple offensives, and if he did his work well, the Soviet side would be short on armoured formations (which are anyway too weak to do much for most of '42)

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

James, nah, that's not the biggest hit.

The biggest hit is that it kind of cripples the whole blizzard runaway strategy for the Germans. They gave up all that real estate banking on the fact they could recapture it come March. Now they can't count on that, and will likely only retake the lost ground in May and June. The Soviets will be in a much better position to consolidate their blizzard gains -- not in the hysterical sense that Pelton is saying of laying down a maginot line that can't be cracked a la 1.04, but at least having a nice buffer zone to absorb the first shock of the summer 42 offensive.

Now, I know you don't believe in a blizzard runaway for the Axis, but that's just you. [:D]

yes another hit and even bigger morale beat down James, so much for your morale offensive.

Flaviusx is happy its back to WWI on the eastern front starting in March 1942.

No Flaviusx it makes running even more important then before. You have to rail everything I mean everything back to Germany.

That way you have not lost 1 million men during blizzard or any morale at all.

This stupid patch has forsed the German side into a total retreat before Blizzard even starts. Do the math the only way no possible for a good german 1942 is a complete retreat. Staying and fighting only crashes moral.

And you will do the complete retreat east during 1942.

Then stalamate 43 ect ect boring.

[Flaviusx]

It's not going to be WWI, Pelton. And March Madness certainly bore no relation to WWII. This is the part you're refusing to get.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

katza is in 43 I am in 44.

He is alrdy in trouble and 76 mm army is 7.5 million strong and not over 9 million as Kamils was. I held the front until 44. You cant defend terrain, because as Katza alrdy has stated and Tarhunnas has also the game is 100% based on a morlae time line, nt and in game results time line. Once your morale tanks its over.

I had 100's of forts, read the hole AAR not the end.

The forts as Katza nd Tarhunnas have stated are usless during 44 and almost usless during 43. Forts during 42 and 43 just keep the Russian player from attriting you do death over the hole front.

You cant defend terrain with out forts after late 42.

You got know idea what your talking about clearly. defending is easy to a point. Once the morale timeline is reached and IF the russian player built the right units your in trouble and your helpless.

Your opponent, at least in Kamil's case, had very significant trouble with getting anywhere until 1944 due to the massive carpet of fortified zones initially and you turtling (as well as, probably, some mistakes with building the army until 1944), but you're convinced that the Soviets will be in Berlin way before their historical timeframe, even though in one of the games you use as evidence to support your theories, that is quite unlikely to happen.

The game is also not based on a morale timeline. You continue to confuse morale with national morale, or rather: insist they're more or less the same thing per definition. That's more true for the Soviets than for the Germans most of the time.

You also complain when the Soviets withdraw a significant distance or turtle, but you use those strategies yourself and accept them for the Axis it seems.

Your points about the Axis being doomed in the sense that they will lose by default doesn't correspond with even some of your own experiences. I'd agree that the Axis face a very difficult time later in the war, but that doesn't mean they're doomed per default.

Whenever even the slightest change is made to the Axis, it's an "uber nerf bat patch" aimed at ruining the game for the Axis in some way.

2by3 designed the game this way dont cry to me about bitch to them.

german national morale has zero effect on the game as in zero it means nothing simply window dressing.

German units do not recover morale while stilling above 50 this has been stated by 2by3 so stop the lies.

German NM is 50 and always has been.

German morale can go up but has a hard cap again as per 2by3 own words.

this hard cap is lowered every yr.

German Morale is on a time line this issue is closed and has been for some time ask katza or tarhunnas they both dont like it and both dont like the stupid combat ratios after 1941.

Both the combat ratio and morale issue are set in stone.

[Peltonx]

It is also set in stone that the Russian army will

1. be bigger then 1.05 by 1.25 million men
2. have 4 months to build forts
3. be spending their AP's to build new armys and not be rebuilding armys before June 1942.

Therefor based on them facts 1942 will be WWI again on the eastern front as before 1.05 all things being equal.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

It's not going to be WWI, Pelton. And March Madness certainly bore no relation to WWII. This is the part you're refusing to get.

Flaviusx said"You alrdy see that 1942 will be a stalemate, The Soviets will be in a much better position to consolidate their blizzard gains -- "

1. be bigger then 1.05 by 1.25 million men
2. have 4 months to build forts
3. be spending their AP's to build new armys and not be rebuilding armys before June 1942.

You know it will be and so do many others.

Al things being equal its WWI on the eastern front.

Its a joke patch as was 1.04 you know it, but you have to push the product.

Like I said not everyone on the team likes it. We both know this.

It is what it is a disaster.