Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Mike Solli »

Thanks guys. I appreciate the support. Where is Tate's Hell anyway?! [X(]

Anyway, here is an example of my planning process.

Take Miri (and Brunei). Miri starts the game with 150(150) oil and Brunei is 10(10). Then there is the 150 refineries at Miri as well that come into play. When repaired (around the end of May) that enclave will produce 51,000 oil (170*10*30) and 40,500 fuel (150*9*30) a month. That's a lot of stuff that has to move out of a level 3 port. Ok, a level 3 port can move 11,250 liquid a day max, and up to 1500 liquid per ship per phase. The kicker is that a level 3 port can dock a convoy of up to 24,000 tons. Now using the large TKs will mean a tiny number of ships (2 TKs max) and it'll take forever to fill them. Fuel and oil will accumulate much faster than it will be pulled. We need to use the small TKs to do it and the 1250 TKs won't cut it. Here's the solution:

There will be 4 convoys each composed of the following:

3x 2850 TK (converted Std-C)
2x 1250 TK
~3-4 To'su PB

This TF will fit in a level 3 port. It also will completely fill in one day minimizing it's time in port. In that day, it will fill it's tanks with 11,050 points of oil or fuel. (Note that Miri and Brunei produces 1350 fuel and 1700 oil a day for a total of 3050 points.)

Now, that enclave produces a total of 91,500 points a month. Divide it by 11,050 and you get 8.28 fills of the TF. That's 2 trips per month per TF. I'd set 2 to pulling oil and 2 to pulling fuel.

That takes 12x 2850 Std-C TKs and 8x 1250 TKs plus ~16 To'sus.

The Std-C conversions are absolutely essential. You'd never do it without them.
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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Mike Solli »

Ok, thoughts on increasing Java's HI. Java starts with 225 oil, 260 resources, 200 refineries, 60 HI and 180 LI. There's a deficit of 1300 resources a day. I didn't expect that, but the 180 LI does a number on the resources. Fortunately, there are a lot of resource producing bases nearby. I will ship resources from the following:

Base (resource centers)

Bandjermasin (60)
Tobali (20)
Billiton (20)
Christmas Is IO (10)
Makassar (20)
Kolaka (40)
Palembang (20)
Singkep (20)
Pontianak (20)

This will allow me to increase the HI in Java by 50 to 110 leaving the following excess for use elsewhere:

Monthly excess:

Supply - 15,000
Fuel - 47,400
Oil - 7500
Resources - 0

The supply will be used in Java as well as the surrounding small bases. Not sure about the fuel, but the oil will make the long trek to Japan.
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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Xargun »

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Thanks Paul. I'm looking forward to getting back into AE as well. It's been since January since I played.

Pax, you too?! Seems like all you guys are interested in hauling overland from Singapore to Fusan! What do you think? Is it gamey or not? Convince me to try it!

I for one think its a bit gamey and do not use it. But I would not hesitate to use it if my opponent started 'gamey' tactics themselves. I haul from Palembang and Singers all the way to Japan. I even haul Resources OUT of Hong Kong and ship it to Japan.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Xargun »

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Thanks guys. I appreciate the support. Where is Tate's Hell anyway?! [X(]

Anyway, here is an example of my planning process.

Take Miri (and Brunei). Miri starts the game with 150(150) oil and Brunei is 10(10). Then there is the 150 refineries at Miri as well that come into play. When repaired (around the end of May) that enclave will produce 51,000 oil (170*10*30) and 40,500 fuel (150*9*30) a month. That's a lot of stuff that has to move out of a level 3 port. Ok, a level 3 port can move 11,250 liquid a day max, and up to 1500 liquid per ship per phase. The kicker is that a level 3 port can dock a convoy of up to 24,000 tons. Now using the large TKs will mean a tiny number of ships (2 TKs max) and it'll take forever to fill them. Fuel and oil will accumulate much faster than it will be pulled. We need to use the small TKs to do it and the 1250 TKs won't cut it. Here's the solution:


Don't forget about Brunei - it's Port can be expanded larger than Miri and fuel moves to the larger Port easily - but oil does not. I use both ports - I ship the oil out of Miri and Fuel from Brunei - I use the small 1250 ton TKs for the oil and normal AOs or large TKs for Fuel from Brunei.

You may also want to plan to enlarge all of the oil bases to size 9+ so you do not suffer any spoilage of Fuel. I had some lost in my game but easily expanded the Ports primarily and then the airfields to get size 9+ to avoid losing fuel to spoilage before it can be hauled away. It makes a HUGE difference at the larger bases like Palembang, Balikpapan and Tarakin.


In your ASW efforts you may want to look at the small islands near Yokohama and south of Okinawa (can't remember their names and not at my game machine). These can easily be built up to a size 1 or 2 port and a size 2+ airfield to provide a base for ASW PBs and ASW air patrols. Put an AG in port at each base to rearm the PB's DCs and you are good.

You can use simple Float planes and AVs to provide support for them so you don't tie up a valuable Base Force or Coy.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Xargun »

Don't be afraid to increase the HI at Singapore as well. It is relatively safe from allied bombing once you take the Rangoon area and Sumatra / Java. You can easily drop of fuel and resources from Sumatra to Singapore to fuel any HI you want to build. I have been slowly increasing the HI there to avoid having to build at home and ship everything in.

I would also consider increasing the Refineries at Soerbaja to match the oil so you can simply haul fuel from there and not worry about having to haul oil somewhere else.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Mike Solli »

Hi Xargun. Lots of great ideas!

My opponent does not use gamey tactics and I don't either. I doubt I'll do it.

Nice idea about Brunei. I didn't realize it accumulated the fuel. That's a great idea!

I try to build up bases to prevent fuel spoilage. There are some bases where you can't get the magic 10 port + airfield to prevent spoilage.

Wonderful idea about AV & AG to eliminate the need for a BF. Never thought of that!

Also a great idea about increasing refineries in Java. That would take only 25 refineries. That's worth it. I think I'll do that. That would eliminate the excess oil and increase supply to 15,750 and fuel to 54,150 a month.

Damn Xargun, you're full of all kinds of good stuff! Thanks!

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Mike Solli »

Oh yeah, I do plan on increasing the HI in Singapore. Not sure how much yet, but whatever it is, there will definitely be excess fuel and resources to feed it.
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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by jrcar »

I think shipping to Takao is a mistake, it will become a bottleneck (even at Level 7), get it all the way back to the home islands and save 4 days of unloading/reloading at Takao.

Even in the home islands I drop off at multiple ports so that only a max of 2 convoy are in a single port at a time.


Cheers
Rob
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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Redsunrizing »

Hello Mike, I can't see the naval 11th air fleet in your deployments, and I was wondering where you were going to use this HQ?
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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: jrcar

I think shipping to Takao is a mistake, it will become a bottleneck (even at Level 7), get it all the way back to the home islands and save 4 days of unloading/reloading at Takao.

Even in the home islands I drop off at multiple ports so that only a max of 2 convoy are in a single port at a time.


Cheers
Rob

Rob, I've been reading the last few entries of your AAR and just came to the same conclusion. That's definitely the way to go. Thanks.
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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: Redsunrizing

Hello Mike, I can't see the naval 11th air fleet in your deployments, and I was wondering where you were going to use this HQ?

I haven't decided where to use that HQ yet. To be honest, I don't know the command range. That'll be the deciding factor.
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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Cribtop »

11th Air HQ has 5 hex range and is very useful.
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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Xargun »

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I try to build up bases to prevent fuel spoilage. There are some bases where you can't get the magic 10 port + airfield to prevent spoilage.

Wonderful idea about AV & AG to eliminate the need for a BF. Never thought of that!

Not sure when it happened but size 9 is the magic number now -- not 10.. Makes it a lot easier on us Jap Fan Boys.

Nice thing with AVs is you can convert merchies to some to increase your float support if needed.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by hkbhsi »

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Also a great idea about increasing refineries in Java. That would take only 25 refineries. That's worth it. I think I'll do that. That would eliminate the excess oil and increase supply to 15,750 and fuel to 54,150 a month.

Hi Mike, I can't wait to read you AAR when the war starts.

I'm not sure that increasing refineries in Java is a good idea. Supply wise they will repay themselves in almost 3 years (1000 days) and they will be probably bombed to dust before that date. For that reason I never repair refineries outside of Japan.

Since you will probably have some of the existing refineries damaged during the capture, regarding the oil surplus you need only to arrange a small convoy to say Singapore (where you will also have the excessive Sumatran oil) for shipment to Japan.
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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Mike Solli »

hkbhsi (I'm not even going to try to pronounce that [:D]), you're right. It all depends. But if the refineries are intact, then 25 additional refineries are required to refine the excess oil. I really don't care about the supply cost. It would be all about the 7500 excess oil a month that wouldn't have to be shipped to Japan. I know it's not really a lot, but that's a long distance for the oil to travel to be refined. That extra fuel a month would be used for fleet refueling in the SRA where the main body of the fleet will be stationed when not being used.

The fuel would most likely be moved off Java, but since it's in the form of fuel and not oil, there would be more options. As oil, only TKs and AOs can move it. As fuel, xAKs can also move it. I see TKs and AOs being at a premium throughout the war. Having to divert a large TK a month or dedicate a couple of 1250 TKs forever (just to get the oil to Singapore) may be an issue. We'll see what transpires.
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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Grfin Zeppelin »

Aaaah a Mike Solli AAR. WhenI bought AE I started Japan and the first sound I made after pondering a few minutes was "Ufff" followed by an "Uhm".
Then I found your AAR and had at least some guidance where to start. Thanks alot for that and I am subscribed too :)

Btw I would convert some of the 14 Kn AKs into AK-Ts. They have reasonable load in troops and cargo and okish speed for movement and Invasion. The Tohos are very sweet for that and you can use some 12Kn ships instead for resource hauling for example.
Remember you will have alot of troops to move after the intitial invasions. I also share your view on certain AK-L classes, I never understood why some players think they are throw away ships.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by USSAmerica »

Since you started over the holiday, Mike, it has taken me until the second page to get subscribed, but I am now.  [:D]

You know I have only played the Allies so far, but the economic system does fascinate me, and nobody breaks it down and explains it better than you do!  [&o]

Good luck, and have fun! 
Mike

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"They need more rum punch" - Me

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by USSAmerica »

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Ok, thoughts on increasing Java's HI. Java starts with 225 oil, 260 resources, 200 refineries, 60 HI and 180 LI. There's a deficit of 1300 resources a day. I didn't expect that, but the 180 LI does a number on the resources. Fortunately, there are a lot of resource producing bases nearby. I will ship resources from the following:

Base (resource centers)

Bandjermasin (60)
Tobali (20)
Billiton (20)
Christmas Is IO (10)
Makassar (20)
Kolaka (40)
Palembang (20)
Singkep (20)
Pontianak (20)

This will allow me to increase the HI in Java by 50 to 110 leaving the following excess for use elsewhere:

Monthly excess:

Supply - 15,000
Fuel - 47,400
Oil - 7500
Resources - 0

The supply will be used in Java as well as the surrounding small bases. Not sure about the fuel, but the oil will make the long trek to Japan.

Mike, I don't know if it will make a difference to your plans or desires on Java, but with the beta patches you can now turn off the light industry. Depending on what you want to do on Java, it could save a lot of resources for use in the HI, as long as you were ok on supplies.
Mike

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Mike Solli »

I can turn off LI? I thought the patch stopped one from turning off LI! Man, it's been a long time.
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