A strange pacific war tale
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- kaleidoscope
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:23 am
- Location: Tennessee
A strange pacific war tale
Read this quite a few years ago
and the story lodged in my memory.
During the reconquest of the Philippines,
the Americans had put an airbase into operation.
The primitive ground radar spotted an approaching contact and a
combat air patrol was vectored to investigate.
The blip was a P-40 and the patrol pilot noticed it
had strange markings, The P-40 was allowed to land
but it did a belly flop and burst into flames.
Wedged inside the cockpit wreckage,
was the mangled remains not only
of the pilot, but an additional passenger both
burnt beyond recognition.
Strangest of all, the P-40 had no landing gear
whatsoever.
The odd markings were early war Army Air Force
markings.
It sounds like this incident could have been some holdout pilot(s)
that had somehow managed to avoid capture during the
initial Japanese conquest, perhaps hiding out at some
remote island airstrip. Or, it could have been a
desperate Japanese suicide mission using
a captured aircraft.
I believe I read it in a book by Reader's Digest
titled "True Stories of World War II". Not sure though,
its been so long ago.
Has anyone heard of this story discussed at all elsewhere
and maybe have additional info?
and the story lodged in my memory.
During the reconquest of the Philippines,
the Americans had put an airbase into operation.
The primitive ground radar spotted an approaching contact and a
combat air patrol was vectored to investigate.
The blip was a P-40 and the patrol pilot noticed it
had strange markings, The P-40 was allowed to land
but it did a belly flop and burst into flames.
Wedged inside the cockpit wreckage,
was the mangled remains not only
of the pilot, but an additional passenger both
burnt beyond recognition.
Strangest of all, the P-40 had no landing gear
whatsoever.
The odd markings were early war Army Air Force
markings.
It sounds like this incident could have been some holdout pilot(s)
that had somehow managed to avoid capture during the
initial Japanese conquest, perhaps hiding out at some
remote island airstrip. Or, it could have been a
desperate Japanese suicide mission using
a captured aircraft.
I believe I read it in a book by Reader's Digest
titled "True Stories of World War II". Not sure though,
its been so long ago.
Has anyone heard of this story discussed at all elsewhere
and maybe have additional info?
RE: A strange pacific war tale
If it had "no landing gear", how did it take off? A slingshot?[8|]
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
- kaleidoscope
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:23 am
- Location: Tennessee
RE: A strange pacific war tale
Elevated inclined ramp with a sea cliff Terminus? :)
That is one reason it is a strange story.
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That is one reason it is a strange story.
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RE: A strange pacific war tale
I've never heard the story before, but if they had pieced together a plane, they might have had some sort of ejectable landing gear that got them off the ground and then dropped away once airborne. It's also possible the landing gear was not supposed to drop away, but did accidentally.
Bill
Bill
WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer
RE: A strange pacific war tale
Sounds like an urban legend, there is just too much wrong about it.
1. As Terminus says, no landing gear ?
If the pilots were American.
2. How did they know that the Americans had landed ?
3. How did they know which airfield to fly to ?
4. Why fly, if true, the aircraft hasn't flown in 4 years, not quite a safe venture if you can wait for the advance of ground forces instead.
5. In four years they didn't come into contact with any Philippine resistance groups/villagers who could recount the story later ?
6. If they still had the avgas, why not try to escape to the DEI early in the war ?
If Japanese
2. Early war air force markings ? If you want to look American it's not hard to repaint in a modern scheme. In the 4 years the plane would probably have been painted as a test/trainer plane.
3. If I read the story correctly, they tried to land, doesn't sound like a kamikaze attack.
4. 2 guys in the plane for a kamikaze attack ?
1. As Terminus says, no landing gear ?
If the pilots were American.
2. How did they know that the Americans had landed ?
3. How did they know which airfield to fly to ?
4. Why fly, if true, the aircraft hasn't flown in 4 years, not quite a safe venture if you can wait for the advance of ground forces instead.
5. In four years they didn't come into contact with any Philippine resistance groups/villagers who could recount the story later ?
6. If they still had the avgas, why not try to escape to the DEI early in the war ?
If Japanese
2. Early war air force markings ? If you want to look American it's not hard to repaint in a modern scheme. In the 4 years the plane would probably have been painted as a test/trainer plane.
3. If I read the story correctly, they tried to land, doesn't sound like a kamikaze attack.
4. 2 guys in the plane for a kamikaze attack ?
The AE-Wiki, help fill it out
RE: A strange pacific war tale
The Japanese did capture early war US aircraft and repainted them in Japanese schemes. Some of those planes were recaptured later.
It is possible they didn't have enough avgas to get very far. If they were in contact with the natives, they would have known when the Americans landed, but then the natives they were in contact with would have told the Americans later about the odd Americans with their plane hidden in the jungle.
A plane that hasn't flown in nearly 4 years is going to be in pretty poor condition. Especially in the jungle. All the rubber hoses and fittings would rot among other things.
Bill
It is possible they didn't have enough avgas to get very far. If they were in contact with the natives, they would have known when the Americans landed, but then the natives they were in contact with would have told the Americans later about the odd Americans with their plane hidden in the jungle.
A plane that hasn't flown in nearly 4 years is going to be in pretty poor condition. Especially in the jungle. All the rubber hoses and fittings would rot among other things.
Bill
WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer
RE: A strange pacific war tale
I've run into the "legend" several times, but with no acreditation. Many aircraft have been launched without permanet landing gear (the ME-163 comes to mind. ). It's a great "ghost story" , it's very entertaining. But I've never seen a single 1st source historical document or account of the "event". And world war 2 was one of the most documented wars in history (at least from the USA side). You can find at the National archives in college park toliet paper requistion reports. The only reason I can think of for such an event occuring without documentation would be the people witnessing such an occurrance would not want their names associated with such a story (such as many air crew would later refuse to file UFO reports).
So there are my two takes. Either "urban legend" (or great story for a Sci-fi type magazine) or a "event too weird to risk reporting. I'd argue against the second as the fast majority of Americans fighting WW2 were either draftee's or "war time only" combatants. Very few professionals were there. And most "hostilities only" warriors couldn't give a fig what the Authorities thought, and only concern of their military career was how soon they could end it.They'd have reported it. Or written a bokk about it as soon as they were out.
So there are my two takes. Either "urban legend" (or great story for a Sci-fi type magazine) or a "event too weird to risk reporting. I'd argue against the second as the fast majority of Americans fighting WW2 were either draftee's or "war time only" combatants. Very few professionals were there. And most "hostilities only" warriors couldn't give a fig what the Authorities thought, and only concern of their military career was how soon they could end it.They'd have reported it. Or written a bokk about it as soon as they were out.
RE: A strange pacific war tale
ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
I've run into the "legend" several times, but with no acreditation. Many aircraft have been launched without permanet landing gear (the ME-163 comes to mind. ). It's a great "ghost story" , it's very entertaining. But I've never seen a single 1st source historical document or account of the "event". And world war 2 was one of the most documented wars in history (at least from the USA side). You can find at the National archives in college park toliet paper requistion reports. The only reason I can think of for such an event occuring without documentation would be the people witnessing such an occurrance would not want their names associated with such a story (such as many air crew would later refuse to file UFO reports).
So there are my two takes. Either "urban legend" (or great story for a Sci-fi type magazine) or a "event too weird to risk reporting. I'd argue against the second as the fast majority of Americans fighting WW2 were either draftee's or "war time only" combatants. Very few professionals were there. And most "hostilities only" warriors couldn't give a fig what the Authorities thought, and only concern of their military career was how soon they could end it.They'd have reported it. Or written a bokk about it as soon as they were out.
Not to mention that this is a bit different from a UFO-sighting. If a report is filed, there is a ton of physical evidence to back it up, there is the wreck of the plane, the bodies of the pilots, .... Not to mention that it isn't just one or two persons who would have witnessed this, maybe 2 guys could think 'this is too strange to report', but an airbase full of people ?
The AE-Wiki, help fill it out
RE: A strange pacific war tale
Sounds like an old ghost story. I wouldn't take anything in Reader's Digest too seriously.
-- Mark Sieving
RE: A strange pacific war tale
ORIGINAL: kaleidoscope
Elevated inclined ramp with a sea cliff Terminus? :)
That is one reason it is a strange story.
It's not strange, it's moronic. You can't launch an aircraft with a propeller in the front without landing gear.
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
- YankeeAirRat
- Posts: 633
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:59 am
RE: A strange pacific war tale
Take my word for it. You never want to be involved in an “International Incident”.
RE: A strange pacific war tale
If it had happened, I would think people would want to file a report about it because it is likely the people inside were Americans and if a report was filed, there would be a better chance of finding out who they were any notifying next of kin. So I think it likely that if it was real, there would be more of a record of it.
I believe there was at least one USAAF pilot who became a guerrilla leader on Mindanao. He came walking out of the jungle with the rest of the Americans left behind when the Allies landed on Mindanao.
Bill
I believe there was at least one USAAF pilot who became a guerrilla leader on Mindanao. He came walking out of the jungle with the rest of the Americans left behind when the Allies landed on Mindanao.
Bill
WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer
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RE: A strange pacific war tale
kaleidoscope -
I do recall a similar tale in Martin Caidin's Ragged Rugged Warriors (1966), which starts with the AVG - IIRC.
http://www.amazon.com/Ragged-Rugged-War ... 633&sr=1-2
Mac
I do recall a similar tale in Martin Caidin's Ragged Rugged Warriors (1966), which starts with the AVG - IIRC.
http://www.amazon.com/Ragged-Rugged-War ... 633&sr=1-2
Mac
LAV-25 2147
- YankeeAirRat
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RE: A strange pacific war tale
ORIGINAL: Terminus
ORIGINAL: kaleidoscope
Elevated inclined ramp with a sea cliff Terminus? :)
That is one reason it is a strange story.
It's not strange, it's moronic. You can't launch an aircraft with a propeller in the front without landing gear.
Without landing gear?
What about this bird?
Or
What about this one?
I am confused does this bird have landing gear
[:D][:'(]
Take my word for it. You never want to be involved in an “International Incident”.
RE: A strange pacific war tale
Yesss, very clever. Pat yourself on the head and say good boy.[8|]
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
- Capt Cliff
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- YankeeAirRat
- Posts: 633
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:59 am
RE: A strange pacific war tale
ORIGINAL: Terminus
Yesss, very clever. Pat yourself on the head and say good boy.[8|]
I try.[:D] Just because I was trying to pull your chain a little bit. It is almost all hollow's eve where I am and traditionally we play tricks before all hollow's eve on friends and co-workers.
Take my word for it. You never want to be involved in an “International Incident”.
RE: A strange pacific war tale
ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan
kaleidoscope -
I do recall a similar tale in Martin Caidin's Ragged Rugged Warriors (1966), which starts with the AVG - IIRC.
http://www.amazon.com/Ragged-Rugged-War ... 633&sr=1-2
Mac
So we are talking about Sci Fi!!
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
- kaleidoscope
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:23 am
- Location: Tennessee
RE: A strange pacific war tale
I found some hits that relate roughly similar stories
all of which concern a solitary P-40.
http://www.futilitycloset.com/2011/05/0 ... ost-plane/
http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/odditie ... y/p40.html
and finally this discussion at another forum where some underlying facts emerge
which make for some interesting reading both pro and con in regards to this subject.
http://www.schstwa2.tk/the-phantom-p-40
This is a quote from that forum by Dan Ford concerning the P-40 story:
"The author of the original story was
evidently Robert Scott, commander of the 23rd Fighter Group after the
AVG went home. Scott and other USAAF personnel in China thought of
themselves, and the survivors still think of themselves today, as
Flying Tigers, and indeed the various units commanded by Chennault
after July 1942 wore Disney-art Flying Tiger patches, different from
but related to the one created for the AVG.
In answer to how the Phantom P-40 took off if it had no landing gear,
I recall that it was launched on a bamboo skid of some sort.
That Scott did not include this yarn in God Is My Co-pilot suggests
that it was a wild tale with no basis in fact. Given
the time frame, and the small numbers of pilots involved in teh 23rd
FG, it seems almost impossible that he wouldn’t have known about it at
first hand, if it had actually happened."
all of which concern a solitary P-40.
http://www.futilitycloset.com/2011/05/0 ... ost-plane/
http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/odditie ... y/p40.html
and finally this discussion at another forum where some underlying facts emerge
which make for some interesting reading both pro and con in regards to this subject.
http://www.schstwa2.tk/the-phantom-p-40
This is a quote from that forum by Dan Ford concerning the P-40 story:
"The author of the original story was
evidently Robert Scott, commander of the 23rd Fighter Group after the
AVG went home. Scott and other USAAF personnel in China thought of
themselves, and the survivors still think of themselves today, as
Flying Tigers, and indeed the various units commanded by Chennault
after July 1942 wore Disney-art Flying Tiger patches, different from
but related to the one created for the AVG.
In answer to how the Phantom P-40 took off if it had no landing gear,
I recall that it was launched on a bamboo skid of some sort.
That Scott did not include this yarn in God Is My Co-pilot suggests
that it was a wild tale with no basis in fact. Given
the time frame, and the small numbers of pilots involved in teh 23rd
FG, it seems almost impossible that he wouldn’t have known about it at
first hand, if it had actually happened."
RE: A strange pacific war tale
ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff
It's obvious ... the pilot was Wild Bill Kelso!!
Last seen as a POW on an IJN sub heading back to the home islands; maybe he became the American equivalent of "Fuji" on McHales' Navy?
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