Rule V1.05.18 - 12 NKVD Border Regiments disbanding

[gingerbread]

I've had NKVD Border Regiments disband on the border to Finland before that front is open so to say, and it does make the initial attacks a bit too good. I suggest that some suitable modifications are made.

[kirkgregerson]

I don't see any issue here? I think people need to keep this new rule in mind when they garrison borders with the Fins. You should have enough brigade units along with some div units that could 'train up' on the border.

Personally I like this new rule in v1.05.

[:'(]

[jzardos]

I suggest that some suitable modifications are made.

I'm all for suitable modifications. We all should love suitable modifications.
[&o]

But just not in this area of the game.

I think maybe gingerbread man wants to have NKVD morph to division size rather than disband later?
Hard to say, he was a tad bit vague.
[:'(]

[heliodorus04]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

I've had NKVD Border Regiments disband on the border to Finland before that front is open so to say, and it does make the initial attacks a bit too good. I suggest that some suitable modifications are made.

Do you mean SEC brigades disband before the Finnish army is activated (Turns 1 & 2)? I'm not clear on the problem. If it's at the Svir, well, that's what happens, and it's why you shouldn't guard the border with those units exclusively.

[gingerbread]

My bad for using an expression lacking clarity ("before that front is open so to say").

It happened on turn 3 & 4 (it cannot happen until July, i.e. turn 3) and it will leave gaps in the line towards Finland. It is in theory possible put put another unit in place, of course.

I also like the SEC disband rule - I even wrote about it in the suggestion thread - but I think it needs some tuning. Exception for units X<81 AND Y<11 would work.

[carlkay58]

I have had the same experience where frozen SEC IIIs along the Finish border disband before the Fins activate. This gives their initial offensive a boost and in one of my games allowed the Fins to surround several Soviet divisions up there - something that had never happened before in my knowledge. The question is whether that is part of the intention of the rule or should they not have those SEC IIIs check until they are at least activated.

[Q-Ball]

I can see it a problem up north. But 2-3 Soviet Rifle divisions are very easy to surround, SEC units or not. There are a couple in a really bad spot when the Finns deactivate, and a decent Axis player should be able to bag a couple units at least.

That's regardless of whether there are those NKVD units or not

[Helpless]

Probably it makes sense to restrict disbanding for the frozen units.

[delatbabel]

ORIGINAL: Helpless

Probably it makes sense to restrict disbanding for the frozen units.

Can we get that happening please? It's very hard to contain the Finnish breakout in 1941, you have to rail many divisions up there and of course as soon as they get into the "freeze" zone they are themselves frozen and can't move to replace the frozen yet disbanded NKVD units.

[Q-Ball]

Those frozen NKVD units should be fixed, but railing units up there to contain the Finnish breakout is a bad idea. It's far better to simply withdraw, and let them walk to the No-Move line.

NKVD or no, a couple units are on the ropes anyway right from the get-go, and really at risk.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

I've had NKVD Border Regiments disband on the border to Finland before that front is open so to say, and it does make the initial attacks a bit too good. I suggest that some suitable modifications are made.

Yes, my opponent bagged I think 3 rifle divisions. Surprise the 22 june? Ok. But up north... [&:] This also means you need minimum Rifle brigades and fortified regions to man the Finish No Attack Line.

[delatbabel]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
Those frozen NKVD units should be fixed, but railing units up there to contain the Finnish breakout is a bad idea. It's far better to simply withdraw, and let them walk to the No-Move line.

Are you talking about the no-move line or the no-attack line? If you just pull everything south of the no-move line that means surrendering Leningrad without a fight. I can't see what there is to be gained by that. Can you explain why this is better than at least trying to stop the Finns at the no-attack line?

How do you stop the Finns at the no-attack line without sending any units up there?

What I'm finding is that because all of the NKVD regiments are gone/disbanded before they get a chance to come down to the no-attack line, there isn't enough time to rail enough rifle divisions/brigades up to the no-attack line to stop the Finns just walking across it. If you let the Finns walk south as far as the no-move line, what's to stop the Germans pushing units to the far eastern edge of that line and then pushing through into the Urals by late 1941?