Need help in using Opmodes/land combat

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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gradenko2k
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:08 am

Need help in using Opmodes/land combat

Post by gradenko2k »

I grasp the idea of switching between Rest, Bombardment, Deliberate and Shock Attacks. I even grasp the idea of rotating several units within the same hex across those various modes so that some units can rest and reorganize while others keep up the pressure.

I know that Move lets you march through hexes faster, but will punish you if you get attacked while in that mode. Strategic Movement lets you move even faster, but requires a few days for the unit to "pack up".

What I'm not sure about is how Move and Strategic Movement should be used against each other. Assuming everything is all clear and I'm not expecting to be attacked anytime soon, is there a point to using Move? I'm guessing it may not be worth the pack-up time if I'm only moving a short distance, and I'm also guessing that you can't Strategic Move everywhere?

As a follow-up, if I have several units in a hex engaging several other units in a hex, and I want to surround the unit, can I move, say, a single unit out of the disputed hex to take surrounding positions, or is there some kind of ZOC system in place that means I have to make the envelopment from the 'outside'?

Basically:

Code: Select all

  A A
 A X J
  J J
 

If the disputed hex is X, and I'm the Allied A, can I march a unit from X directly into the J hexes to perform a surround?
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Nemo121
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RE: Need help in using Opmodes/land combat

Post by Nemo121 »

Well, what you need to do is look at the movement rate tables for the various forces you have and compare them over the distance to be moved + packing time.

Basically look at how far the force has to move ( say, 6 hexes ) and look at its movement rate ( say 30 miles per day ). 6 Hexes is 276 miles so at the MOVE rate it'll make it there in 10 days.

Then look at STRATEGIC MOVE rates ( say 90 miles per day ) + the packing AND unpacking time ( say 2 days each side ). So, the journey will take 4 days and the packing will take 4 days. In total that's 8 days.

So, strategic move may get you there 2 days faster. Then you need to decide what risk those additional two days is worth.

Basically once you get to 6 hexes or so Strategic move begins to be viable but you do need to balance the increased risk.


You can make the envelopment from "inside" BUT you cannot move from inside to outside IF the enemy owns both the incoming and outgoing hex sides.

So, if the enemy came from the east you cannot move "past" them to the east from the hex which is being contended. This is so because otherwise it would be impossible to create any front in the game.
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Well, that's that settled then.
Alfred
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Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:56 am

RE: Need help in using Opmodes/land combat

Post by Alfred »

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

I grasp the idea of switching between Rest, Bombardment, Deliberate and Shock Attacks. I even grasp the idea of rotating several units within the same hex across those various modes so that some units can rest and reorganize while others keep up the pressure.

I know that Move lets you march through hexes faster, but will punish you if you get attacked while in that mode. Strategic Movement lets you move even faster, but requires a few days for the unit to "pack up".

What I'm not sure about is how Move and Strategic Movement should be used against each other. Assuming everything is all clear and I'm not expecting to be attacked anytime soon, is there a point to using Move? I'm guessing it may not be worth the pack-up time if I'm only moving a short distance, and I'm also guessing that you can't Strategic Move everywhere?

As a follow-up, if I have several units in a hex engaging several other units in a hex, and I want to surround the unit, can I move, say, a single unit out of the disputed hex to take surrounding positions, or is there some kind of ZOC system in place that means I have to make the envelopment from the 'outside'?

Basically:

Code: Select all

  A A
 A X J
  J J
 

If the disputed hex is X, and I'm the Allied A, can I march a unit from X directly into the J hexes to perform a surround?

Further amplification to Nemo's post.

You can "move" to anywhere, at all times. "Strategic" movement is limited to only between connected and owned bases on a railroad. Note the subset of "strategic" movement available to American and Australian units where they can "strategic" travel on Main Roads rather than just railroads - not as rapid as railway travel but quicker than "move" travel.

So the travel mode choice is really between "combat" and "move". The availability of "strategic" mode is quite restricted, places the troops involved in the most vulnerable state to receive an enemy attack, and generally has a 3 day pack up + pack down cost.

Alfred
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JeffroK
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RE: Need help in using Opmodes/land combat

Post by JeffroK »

? Is there a penalty for attacking in MOVE formation  ?
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Alfred
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RE: Need help in using Opmodes/land combat

Post by Alfred »

Yes.

It shows up as a (-) combat modifier in the combat report.

Alfred
gradenko2k
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RE: Need help in using Opmodes/land combat

Post by gradenko2k »

Thanks for the help Alfred and Nemo, that's much easier to understand. As a bit of a follow-up:

1. Is the movement rate displayed quickly/easily within the game, or would I have to do calculations myself by looking up the various terrain modifiers and whatnot on the manual?

2. How do I show which hexes are railroads or not? I think it would be the display with the light red/red/dark red lines? But I don't know how to activate that view and how to interpret the lines.

3. Going back to my envelopment question, if Nemo says I cannot cross hex-sides that are 'owned' by the enemy, then in the following situation:

Code: Select all

  A A
 A X 1
  2 3
 
If the Japanese in X came from 3, then I cannot make a move directly from X to 3. I can however make moves from X to 1 and X to 2, and also from 2 to 3 or from 1 to 3. Did I get that right?
Alfred
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RE: Need help in using Opmodes/land combat

Post by Alfred »

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

Thanks for the help Alfred and Nemo, that's much easier to understand. As a bit of a follow-up:

1. Is the movement rate displayed quickly/easily within the game, or would I have to do calculations myself by looking up the various terrain modifiers and whatnot on the manual?

2. How do I show which hexes are railroads or not? I think it would be the display with the light red/red/dark red lines? But I don't know how to activate that view and how to interpret the lines.

3. Going back to my envelopment question, if Nemo says I cannot cross hex-sides that are 'owned' by the enemy, then in the following situation:

Code: Select all

  A A
 A X 1
  2 3
 
If the Japanese in X came from 3, then I cannot make a move directly from X to 3. I can however make moves from X to 1 and X to 2, and also from 2 to 3 or from 1 to 3. Did I get that right?

1. No ingame assistance. You have to do the calculations yourself. See table on pages 189-190 of the manual. Note that the table presents the best travel rates possible. Disruption etc will reduce the travel speed.

2. There are two relevant hotkeys which toggle on and off. "Y" displays the railroad network, "R" displays the road network. toggle on and off to see what the underlying pwhex file says is the situation, then compare with the map graphical display (with the hotkey toggled off). Finally scroll over to the top right hand corner of the map to see the map legend for the different graphical representation of topographical features.

3. I'm not fooled, you have merely replaced the earlier "J" with the numbers "1", "2" and "3".[:)] Thus your 1,2,and 3 still represent Japanese owned hexsides.

(a) The restrictions on movement only apply when a contested hex is in question. If at "x" there was only an Allied unit present, you could move it and exit the hex through any of the six hexsides irrespective of who "owned" the hexside. I have placed this "owned" in quotation marks because in fact hexside ownership defaults to the owner of the hex.

(b) Having read carefully the preceding paragraph you will realise that the hexsides "1" and "2" could not be Japanese owned unless you actually have three Japanese units at "x", each one having arrived separately through one of the numbered hexsides.

(c) It is physically imposible for anyone to move from hexside "2" to hexside "3" or vice versa. Nor can you move from "1" to "3" or vice versa. You are currently confusing hexsides with hexes, they are not the same thing. Each hexside is like a door with an exterior and interior face. Owning the hex, labelled "x" you have six doors, each with one face looking inwards to hex "x" and an exterior face looking towards the bordering hex. You have labelled the inside of these doors (three As plus the three numbers) but there is a corresponding outside face of the door too which opens to another hex. Hexsides "2" and "3", (or "1" and "3") or the doors they represent, lead to other hexes or rooms.

(d) Hexside "3" is owned by Japan because he opened that door from the adjacent south eastern bordered hex and moved through it to "x".

(e) Whilst the hex "x" remains contested, ie both the Allies and Japan maintains a unit at "x", the Allied player (ie you[:)]) cannot open door "3" and move through hexside "3" into the adjacent south east bordering hex.

(f) Conversely, whilst Japan retains ownership of hexside "3", the Japanese unit can always withdraw from hex "x" through hexside or door "3". This withdrawal can be affected either voluntarily or involuntarily as a result of a battle defeat which forces a retreat.

(g) The Allied player can however wrest ownership of hexside "3" from Japan by entering hex "x" using the same doorway (ie hexside "3"). The immediate point of origin would be the same south eastern bordering hex from which the Japanese unit originally walked into hex "x".

(h) An enemy unit which is forced, by defeat in battle, to retreat but does not own any hexsides is placed in a situation where surrender may result.

Section 8.3.1.2 of the manual deals with the effects of hexside ownership on movement.

Alfred

Edit: had to keep correcting the right hexsides in the explanation, tricky little devils[:D] Plus thought the explanation needed a bit more "clarity".
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Knyvet
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RE: Need help in using Opmodes/land combat

Post by Knyvet »

One other thing that is handy: key "w" displays hex/hexside ownership.



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