Navies mentioned on Website include: Dutch, French, New Zealand, Australian, Japanese, American, Siamese and British navies.
Where are the Russians???
Were there not Russian Navy units in the pacific at this time???
Was Vladivostok not a major port?
Also, did the Chinese have any navy types? river boats? sub chasers? pt boats? other small craft?
Will there be no Russian Navy in this game? Particularly centered around Vladivostok?
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Jeremy Pritchard
- Posts: 575
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Having the Russkie Navy would be a BIG TIME cool item to add even if they got virtually no use. It would give the Japanese player a late war target that he could engage and have a realistic hope of defeating. It would also just be cool to have them as the Allied player. Not too mention (Jeremy, brace yourself) the WHAT-IF's that could come about.
SF3C B. B. New USS North Carolina BB-55 - Permission is granted to go ashore for the last shore leave. (1926-2003)
If they include the Russians they will have to model neutrals in the game since the Russian are neutral until 1945. If they didn’t model neutrals then the first time the Japanese set a bomber group on Naval attack it would attack the Russians.
Russian planes are in the UV editor, by the way.
Yamamoto
Russian planes are in the UV editor, by the way.
Yamamoto
I can pretty much guarantee that there won't be a Russian Navy in the game. In the time period covered by the game, there was no Russian Navy. There was a Soviet Navy, but I'm not convinced there's any reason to model them in a Pacific game.
The Soviets in this period had one worn-out old ex-RN BB (transferred to the USSR in mid-1944), one worn-out old ex-USN CL (also transferred in mid-1944), a couple of frankly unimpressive homegrown cruisers (WW1 designs completed just in time for WW2), and a handful of destroyers of varying degrees of modernity and capability (but still far behind those of the principal naval combatants).
The main strength of the WW2-era Soviet Navy was in small craft (PTs, PGs, and such) and submarines, which were concentrated in the Black and Baltic Seas. Even if they could have been transported to the Pacific, the patrol boats could have very little impact unless Japan chose to take the war to Siberia, as they were distinctly not capable of offensive, open-ocean operations. The subs were even worse: badly obsolete (In 1944 the Soviets raised a German Type VIIC - basically a mid-1930s design - that had hit a mine in the Baltic; they were mortified to discover how very far behind their own subs actually were.), and limited to diving depths of 50m or less by severe metallurgical problems, they had little enough success in the theaters and against the enemy they were designed and built for - sending them to the Pacific en masse would be futile and wasteful.
So I ask, what what-ifs? The Soviets didn't even have a proper "Frigate Navy" during this time period, so the "hey, that's cool" factor is going to be very limited. Nor is it even remotely conceivable that they might field a more formidable force in any circumstances short of negating both Barbarossa and the October Revolution. And probably Tsushima Strait as well, while we're at it. Trouble is, by that point we're so far out in fantasyland that we don't have any real-life referents to guide us anymore. So we can justify bringing in any darn thing - you want Montanas? "Super Yamatos" with 6 x 20" guns? Nimitzes? Why not? CVNs in 1945 are hardly less believable than the USSR suddenly extracting a spare Navy from some unspeakably biological location on their collective person.
The Soviets in this period had one worn-out old ex-RN BB (transferred to the USSR in mid-1944), one worn-out old ex-USN CL (also transferred in mid-1944), a couple of frankly unimpressive homegrown cruisers (WW1 designs completed just in time for WW2), and a handful of destroyers of varying degrees of modernity and capability (but still far behind those of the principal naval combatants).
The main strength of the WW2-era Soviet Navy was in small craft (PTs, PGs, and such) and submarines, which were concentrated in the Black and Baltic Seas. Even if they could have been transported to the Pacific, the patrol boats could have very little impact unless Japan chose to take the war to Siberia, as they were distinctly not capable of offensive, open-ocean operations. The subs were even worse: badly obsolete (In 1944 the Soviets raised a German Type VIIC - basically a mid-1930s design - that had hit a mine in the Baltic; they were mortified to discover how very far behind their own subs actually were.), and limited to diving depths of 50m or less by severe metallurgical problems, they had little enough success in the theaters and against the enemy they were designed and built for - sending them to the Pacific en masse would be futile and wasteful.
So I ask, what what-ifs? The Soviets didn't even have a proper "Frigate Navy" during this time period, so the "hey, that's cool" factor is going to be very limited. Nor is it even remotely conceivable that they might field a more formidable force in any circumstances short of negating both Barbarossa and the October Revolution. And probably Tsushima Strait as well, while we're at it. Trouble is, by that point we're so far out in fantasyland that we don't have any real-life referents to guide us anymore. So we can justify bringing in any darn thing - you want Montanas? "Super Yamatos" with 6 x 20" guns? Nimitzes? Why not? CVNs in 1945 are hardly less believable than the USSR suddenly extracting a spare Navy from some unspeakably biological location on their collective person.
Some days you're the windshield.
Some days you're the bug.
Some days you're the bug.
Well, the VMF had a Pacific Fleet on June 22nd 1941, and it can hardly have disappeared between then and August 1945, so there must have been *some* Soviet ships at Vladivostock. According to numbers I have seen, the Pacific Fleet had up to 600 vessels in 1945, although many of these would be motor or riverine craft (some of these being quite big) rather than oceangoing ships. One list of vessels I found for 1945 give the Pacific Fleet as follows - 2 cruisers, 22 destroyers and torpedo boats, 135 MTBs/PTs and MGBs/PGMs, 85 submarines, 68 fleet and motor minesweepers. Not exactly the US Navy (or even the British Pacific Fleet), but it's hardly nothing.Originally posted by CynicAl
I can pretty much guarantee that there won't be a Russian Navy in the game. In the time period covered by the game, there was no Russian Navy. There was a Soviet Navy, but I'm not convinced there's any reason to model them in a Pacific game.
The Soviets in this period had one worn-out old ex-RN BB (transferred to the USSR in mid-1944), one worn-out old ex-USN CL (also transferred in mid-1944), a couple of frankly unimpressive homegrown cruisers (WW1 designs completed just in time for WW2), and a handful of destroyers of varying degrees of modernity and capability (but still far behind those of the principal naval combatants).
Cheers,
Angus
It seems to me that if they feel the Siamese navy is significant enough to include, then the Soviets should be as well (weak as they were).
Also, I hope Chinese ships are included so they can be captured by the Japanese. Japan needs all the extra shipping they can get.
Also, I hope Chinese ships are included so they can be captured by the Japanese. Japan needs all the extra shipping they can get.
"Money doesnt talk, it swears. Obscenities, who really cares?" -Bob Dylan
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
Angus - Raw numbers of ships can be very misleading. Did your source go into any detail on the condition of those ships? I'd expect the Soviet Pacific Fleet, not being famously nautical, and being at the far-distant tail end of the supply lines, and in (from Moscow's POV) a backwater theater, and with much greater problems (again Moscow's POV) pressing them from the opposite end of a very large country, to face serious, even crippling, shortages of men, parts, and of course consumables like fuel and ammunition which were in short supply throughout the USSR during the war. And as I said before, the great bulk of their strength was in small craft, not really suitable for anything more than inshore patrols. They may not quite be "nothing," but if not then they're the next closest thing to it.
Snigbert - Most Chinese shipping was either sunk or already in Japanese hands by December 1941. For that matter, most Chinese ports were also in Japanese hands by December 1941. If you want to see the Japanese capturing shipping in the course of the game then you should look to Malaya, the Philippines, and the Dutch East Indies.
Snigbert - Most Chinese shipping was either sunk or already in Japanese hands by December 1941. For that matter, most Chinese ports were also in Japanese hands by December 1941. If you want to see the Japanese capturing shipping in the course of the game then you should look to Malaya, the Philippines, and the Dutch East Indies.
Some days you're the windshield.
Some days you're the bug.
Some days you're the bug.
Al,Originally posted by CynicAl
Angus - Raw numbers of ships can be very misleading. Did your source go into any detail on the condition of those ships? I'd expect the Soviet Pacific Fleet, not being famously nautical, and being at the far-distant tail end of the supply lines, and in (from Moscow's POV) a backwater theater, and with much greater problems (again Moscow's POV) pressing them from the opposite end of a very large country, to face serious, even crippling, shortages of men, parts, and of course consumables like fuel and ammunition which were in short supply throughout the USSR during the war. And as I said before, the great bulk of their strength was in small craft, not really suitable for anything more than inshore patrols. They may not quite be "nothing," but if not then they're the next closest thing to it.
I think you are more than likely dead right where the bigger ships are concerned. After all, look at the old rubbish the Soviets got given by the USN and RN in 1944. Four-stack destroyers and a battleship that had been at Jutland. And apparently they were content with these. Even as new Soviet ships weren't very good in the WWII period. Apart from the Black Sea Fleet the Soviet Navy was pretty useless for most of the war.
However, many of the small ships in the Pacific Fleet were newly arrived (1944, 1945) Lend-Lease stuff from the US and UK. These might not have been *new* new, but they were the same stuff that the USN or RN were using. I'd say that as far as smaller craft go, the Pacific Fleet is probably OK. By the time they got round to invading the Kuriles the Great Patriotic War was over and the Pacific Fleet had a lot more experienced officers and men from from the Baltic and Black Sea.
I agree that the larger ships are almost certainly not much use. Some of the destroyers will be fairly new (30s) but are Italian designs built by Soviet craftsmen. That can't be a happy combination and it's not the right sort of ship for the N Pacific anyway. Any others are either Four-Stackers or even older Imperial Russian Navy ones. The crews for bigger ships are not likely to be as good as for the small ones.
I'll try and dig out some more detailed info. I'm sure there will be a lot of stuff on the web in Russian. I can manage a few languages, but Russian isn't one of them. Fortunately my Russian colleague will be back in the office on Monday ! More info when I've bribed her to search for it.
If the Soviet Pacific Fleet can join the game before the Germans are defeated in Europe it ought to be really, dreadfully, incredibly, shockingly BAD.
Cheers,
Angus
Sounds like we mostly agree, then. I still question the value of patrol craft in the North Pacific, though, no matter how "modern" the ships or experienced the crews. They're too small, and the North Pacific is too rough. And even in better circumstances, they were only really effective against barges, coasters, and enemy patrol craft - the types of targets they'd be likely to encounter on inshore patrols. Pretty marginal, it seems to me.
Some days you're the windshield.
Some days you're the bug.
Some days you're the bug.
Well, I'd agree pretty much with that too. And they weren't much use in the S. Pacific either.Originally posted by CynicAl
Sounds like we mostly agree, then. I still question the value of patrol craft in the North Pacific, though, no matter how "modern" the ships or experienced the crews. They're too small, and the North Pacific is too rough. And even in better circumstances, they were only really effective against barges, coasters, and enemy patrol craft - the types of targets they'd be likely to encounter on inshore patrols. Pretty marginal, it seems to me.
However, there has to be a way for the Soviets to invade the Kuriles with a good chance of success, since they did do it IRL. And they have to have some chance of landing on Hokkaido, because they planned to do this in October '45 had the war gone on.
Cheers,
Angus
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Blackhorse
- Posts: 1415
- Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Eastern US
Re: Will there be no Russian Navy in this game? Particularly centered around Vladivostok?
The only two Chinese warships worth the name were two tiny (2,500 tons) and slow (22 knots) light cruisers that the Japanese bombed, sank, captured and raised in the Yangtze River in 1937.Originally posted by iceboy
Also, did the Chinese have any navy types? river boats? sub chasers? pt boats? other small craft?
The IJN renamed the vessels Ioshima (ex-Ning Hai) and Yasoshima (ex-Ping Hai). One of them served as the flagship of Japan's puppet state in Manchuria, the other was retrofitted and joined the IJN in 1943 IIRC.
By the end of 1941 the Chinese had no ocean-going warships, but a sizeable, motley collection of river craft.
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Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!
Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!
The Soviet Cruisers and destroyers assigned to the Pacific Fleet in 1945 where all new construction.
In particular the 2 Cruisers were the 3rd generation of a 1938 design. The 2 previous generations having already seen war service in the Baltic and Black sea.
Both Cruisers were quite large (about 15000 t), well armed ( 9 x 7.5"), well armoured, and Fast. (32 Kts) In addition they had modern AA batteries, fire control (American), and Radar (American)
Historically both of these Cruisers served untill the late 70's.
And in 1945 would have been only in commission for about a year.
Both of these Cruisers, and all of the Pacific Fleet Destroyers were build at the Amur Shipyard in Siberia, and fitted out in Vladivostock, after sailing down the Amur River.
On an Aside, all of the 2nd Hand ships aquired by the Soviet Navy
from the US and UK, served only with the Northern Fleet, based in Murmansk.
In particular the 2 Cruisers were the 3rd generation of a 1938 design. The 2 previous generations having already seen war service in the Baltic and Black sea.
Both Cruisers were quite large (about 15000 t), well armed ( 9 x 7.5"), well armoured, and Fast. (32 Kts) In addition they had modern AA batteries, fire control (American), and Radar (American)
Historically both of these Cruisers served untill the late 70's.
And in 1945 would have been only in commission for about a year.
Both of these Cruisers, and all of the Pacific Fleet Destroyers were build at the Amur Shipyard in Siberia, and fitted out in Vladivostock, after sailing down the Amur River.
On an Aside, all of the 2nd Hand ships aquired by the Soviet Navy
from the US and UK, served only with the Northern Fleet, based in Murmansk.
"We're having a war, and we want you to come!"
So the pig began to whistle and to pound on a drum.
"We'll give you a gun, and we'll give you a hat!"
And the pig began to whistle when they told the piggies that.
So the pig began to whistle and to pound on a drum.
"We'll give you a gun, and we'll give you a hat!"
And the pig began to whistle when they told the piggies that.
Which two cruisers are these, and what class did they belong to? My best reference shows nothing between the 1935ish Project 26/26bis (some of which were completed during the war, granted, but none of which, AFAIK, served "into the 70s") and the Project 68 ships which completed after the war. I also have to ask for some sort of reference to back your assertion that these ships would have been equipped with the latest US electronic kit. The USN weren't even wild about sharing some of that stuff with the British, who'd helped develop it!Originally posted by Possum
The Soviet Cruisers and destroyers assigned to the Pacific Fleet in 1945 where all new construction.
In particular the 2 Cruisers were the 3rd generation of a 1938 design. The 2 previous generations having already seen war service in the Baltic and Black sea.
Both Cruisers were quite large (about 15000 t), well armed ( 9 x 7.5"), well armoured, and Fast. (32 Kts) In addition they had modern AA batteries, fire control (American), and Radar (American)
Historically both of these Cruisers served untill the late 70's.
And in 1945 would have been only in commission for about a year.
Both of these Cruisers, and all of the Pacific Fleet Destroyers were build at the Amur Shipyard in Siberia, and fitted out in Vladivostock, after sailing down the Amur River.
On an Aside, all of the 2nd Hand ships aquired by the Soviet Navy
from the US and UK, served only with the Northern Fleet, based in Murmansk.
Some days you're the windshield.
Some days you're the bug.
Some days you're the bug.
Sorry, I wrote that comment relying puerly on memory as I don't have my reference book with me at work. (and I hadn't actually read about these ships for years.)
I did go back and read about them last night, and I had gotten the two classes (1936/1938) confused. (and the origin of their electronics!!):o
Unfortunatly, I didn't bring the details into work with me.
But what I recall from reading last night was that they where the last 2 ships of the Maxim? Gorki class (a 1936 design) Maximum loaded weight was only around 9000 tonnes, (15000 tonnes was the later class), and correspondingly, had only light armour.
Both ships in fact where fitted with British fire control and radars
Each had a gunnery set and a air search set (IIRC the air search was type 271, and the gunnery set was type 287?)
Both ships served untill the 1960's, it was again the following class that actually survived untill the 1970's
The first ship was launched sometime in 1940?, and compleated fitting out in Vladevostock in 1943
The second ship was launched sometime in 1941/1942 and compleated fitting out in Vladivostock in late 1944.
I will endever to return tomorrow with more precice dates and ship names.
The reference I was/am using is Conways Warships of the world 1922-1945
I did go back and read about them last night, and I had gotten the two classes (1936/1938) confused. (and the origin of their electronics!!):o
Unfortunatly, I didn't bring the details into work with me.
But what I recall from reading last night was that they where the last 2 ships of the Maxim? Gorki class (a 1936 design) Maximum loaded weight was only around 9000 tonnes, (15000 tonnes was the later class), and correspondingly, had only light armour.
Both ships in fact where fitted with British fire control and radars
Each had a gunnery set and a air search set (IIRC the air search was type 271, and the gunnery set was type 287?)
Both ships served untill the 1960's, it was again the following class that actually survived untill the 1970's
The first ship was launched sometime in 1940?, and compleated fitting out in Vladevostock in 1943
The second ship was launched sometime in 1941/1942 and compleated fitting out in Vladivostock in late 1944.
I will endever to return tomorrow with more precice dates and ship names.
The reference I was/am using is Conways Warships of the world 1922-1945
"We're having a war, and we want you to come!"
So the pig began to whistle and to pound on a drum.
"We'll give you a gun, and we'll give you a hat!"
And the pig began to whistle when they told the piggies that.
So the pig began to whistle and to pound on a drum.
"We'll give you a gun, and we'll give you a hat!"
And the pig began to whistle when they told the piggies that.
OOB Russian Pacific Fleet as of August 1945
Cruisers
Kaganovich, Maxim Gorkiy class,
Laid down 1939, launched Oct 1943, Commisioned June 1944
Kalinin, Maxim Gorky class,
Laid down 1939, launched Apr 1943, Commissioned late 1943
Armamnent was 9 x 180mm/57, 6 x 100mm/56, 10 x 45mm/46, 18 x 37mm/67, 6 x 21"TT, 2 A/C, 100 mines.
Both ships fitted with Type 285 gunnery sets and type 279 Air warning sets.
Destroyer Leaders
Baku, Leningrad class, Launched 1938, commisioned unknown.
Armament was 4 x 130mm/55, 3 x 3"/55, 6 x 37mm/67, 6 x 0.5" MG, 8 x 21" TT, 70 mines. Baku was fitted with a type 285 gunnery set and a American SG surface search set.
Destroyers
Rastropnyi, Gnevnyi class, Launched 1939
Rezkiy, Gnevnyi class, Launched 1939
Razyaryonnyi, Gneyvnyi class, Launched 1940
Retivyi, Gnevnyi class, Launched 1940
Revnostnyi, Gnevneyi class, Launched 1940
Rekordnyi, Gnevnyi class, Launched 1941
Vnimatelnyi, Ognevoi class, Launched 1944
Armament of the Gnevny class was 4 x 130mm/50, 2 x 3"/55, 4 x 37mm/67, 2 to 8 0.5" MG, 6 x 21"TT, 2 DCT, 56 mines.
Many of the Gneveny class were fitted with ASDIC, radars, and other electronic warfare equipment of allied origin, but no details known.
Armament of the Ognevoi class was 4 x 130mm/50, 2 x 85mm/55, 6 x 37mm/67, 6 x 21"TT, 96 mines.
Monitors
Lenin, Shkval class, launched 1910
Sverdlov, Shhkval class, launched 1910
Trockiy, Shkval class, launched 1910
Aktivnyi, Udarnyi class, launched 1933
Guardships
Bruim, Uragan class, launched 1929
Grom, Uragan class, launched 1930
Mietel, Uragan class, launched 1931
Vyuga, Uragan class, launched 1932
Molnya, Uragan class, launched 1933
Zarnica, Uragan class, launched 1934
Dzerhinskiy, Dzerzhinsky class, launched 1934
Kirov, Dzerzhinskiy class, launched 1934
Albatross, Albatross Class, Launched 1943
Chaika, Albatross Class, Launched 1943
Minesweepers
T271 to T282, US Admirable class, commissioned 1945
T521 to T526, US Admirable class, commissioned 1945
T593 to T598, US Admirable class, commissioned 1945
T151 to T156, US YMS Class, commissioned May 1945
T581 to T592, US YMS Class, commissioned June 1945
T599 to T611, US YMS Class, commissioned August 1945
Submarine chasers
Total of 32 were in service with the pacific fleet, all were of the BO201 class, (ex US SC type)
Naval Icebreaker
Anastas Mikoyan, Yosif Stalin class, launched 1938
Note that this ship had been through a compleate overhall and refit at the Todd Dry Dock at Seattle in 1942, emerging with mostly new American armament, equipment, and electronics.
Scorce Conways Warships of the world 1922-1945
Cruisers
Kaganovich, Maxim Gorkiy class,
Laid down 1939, launched Oct 1943, Commisioned June 1944
Kalinin, Maxim Gorky class,
Laid down 1939, launched Apr 1943, Commissioned late 1943
Armamnent was 9 x 180mm/57, 6 x 100mm/56, 10 x 45mm/46, 18 x 37mm/67, 6 x 21"TT, 2 A/C, 100 mines.
Both ships fitted with Type 285 gunnery sets and type 279 Air warning sets.
Destroyer Leaders
Baku, Leningrad class, Launched 1938, commisioned unknown.
Armament was 4 x 130mm/55, 3 x 3"/55, 6 x 37mm/67, 6 x 0.5" MG, 8 x 21" TT, 70 mines. Baku was fitted with a type 285 gunnery set and a American SG surface search set.
Destroyers
Rastropnyi, Gnevnyi class, Launched 1939
Rezkiy, Gnevnyi class, Launched 1939
Razyaryonnyi, Gneyvnyi class, Launched 1940
Retivyi, Gnevnyi class, Launched 1940
Revnostnyi, Gnevneyi class, Launched 1940
Rekordnyi, Gnevnyi class, Launched 1941
Vnimatelnyi, Ognevoi class, Launched 1944
Armament of the Gnevny class was 4 x 130mm/50, 2 x 3"/55, 4 x 37mm/67, 2 to 8 0.5" MG, 6 x 21"TT, 2 DCT, 56 mines.
Many of the Gneveny class were fitted with ASDIC, radars, and other electronic warfare equipment of allied origin, but no details known.
Armament of the Ognevoi class was 4 x 130mm/50, 2 x 85mm/55, 6 x 37mm/67, 6 x 21"TT, 96 mines.
Monitors
Lenin, Shkval class, launched 1910
Sverdlov, Shhkval class, launched 1910
Trockiy, Shkval class, launched 1910
Aktivnyi, Udarnyi class, launched 1933
Guardships
Bruim, Uragan class, launched 1929
Grom, Uragan class, launched 1930
Mietel, Uragan class, launched 1931
Vyuga, Uragan class, launched 1932
Molnya, Uragan class, launched 1933
Zarnica, Uragan class, launched 1934
Dzerhinskiy, Dzerzhinsky class, launched 1934
Kirov, Dzerzhinskiy class, launched 1934
Albatross, Albatross Class, Launched 1943
Chaika, Albatross Class, Launched 1943
Minesweepers
T271 to T282, US Admirable class, commissioned 1945
T521 to T526, US Admirable class, commissioned 1945
T593 to T598, US Admirable class, commissioned 1945
T151 to T156, US YMS Class, commissioned May 1945
T581 to T592, US YMS Class, commissioned June 1945
T599 to T611, US YMS Class, commissioned August 1945
Submarine chasers
Total of 32 were in service with the pacific fleet, all were of the BO201 class, (ex US SC type)
Naval Icebreaker
Anastas Mikoyan, Yosif Stalin class, launched 1938
Note that this ship had been through a compleate overhall and refit at the Todd Dry Dock at Seattle in 1942, emerging with mostly new American armament, equipment, and electronics.
Scorce Conways Warships of the world 1922-1945
"We're having a war, and we want you to come!"
So the pig began to whistle and to pound on a drum.
"We'll give you a gun, and we'll give you a hat!"
And the pig began to whistle when they told the piggies that.
So the pig began to whistle and to pound on a drum.
"We'll give you a gun, and we'll give you a hat!"
And the pig began to whistle when they told the piggies that.
-
David Heath
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2000 5:00 pm
Hi Guys
The Soviet Navy is planned on being in the game. We wanted to give you as many options as possible. Its not 100% promised but any detail information would be very helpful. Please send it to Rich Dionne at (richd@matrixgames.com)
David
The Soviet Navy is planned on being in the game. We wanted to give you as many options as possible. Its not 100% promised but any detail information would be very helpful. Please send it to Rich Dionne at (richd@matrixgames.com)
David
Only one thing to say:
What a great gaming company Matrix is!!! I have never seen such support, attention to detail, and love for the fans that buy their games than Matrix has shown.
This is going to be one heck of a game. Thanks Matrix for always listening to our requests and opinions!!!!
Everyone start sending them all the info you can find on the Soviet Pacific fleet in WWII!!!
I love you man!!! sniff sniff
What a great gaming company Matrix is!!! I have never seen such support, attention to detail, and love for the fans that buy their games than Matrix has shown.
This is going to be one heck of a game. Thanks Matrix for always listening to our requests and opinions!!!!
Everyone start sending them all the info you can find on the Soviet Pacific fleet in WWII!!!
I love you man!!!
sniff sniff