Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: The German-Soviet War 1941-1945 is a turn-based World War II strategy game stretching across the entire Eastern Front. Gamers can engage in an epic campaign, including division-sized battles with realistic and historical terrain, weather, orders of battle, logistics and combat results.

The critically and fan-acclaimed Eastern Front mega-game Gary Grigsby’s War in the East just got bigger and better with Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: Don to the Danube! This expansion to the award-winning War in the East comes with a wide array of later war scenarios ranging from short but intense 6 turn bouts like the Battle for Kharkov (1942) to immense 37-turn engagements taking place across multiple nations like Drama on the Danube (Summer 1944 – Spring 1945).

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Ascended
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by Ascended »

I have a proposal for those of you who say you're certain I'll love the game for years to come.

Buy me the game.

If I like it, I'll pay you your money back. If I find I don't, I'll return the license to you and you'll have yourself an extra copy of the game.

No?

See...
Aurelian
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by Aurelian »

ORIGINAL: Panama

Other very complex expensive games have demos. Two games by Stormeagle Studios are good examples. Both of their Distant Guns releases. I wouldn't have bought either without the demo. A small company with limited resources yet they did it. Matrix is larger than they. A demo for a very expensive game is not unreasonable.

And would you buy this game if the demo did nothing more than play the tutorial? I don't remember the demo for Jutland or Distant Guns allowing more than ship vs ship actions.
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by larryfulkerson »

Maybe instead of a full-blown demo people can watch a video of WITE gameplay.  I believe there's already a demo video on U-tube for WITE.  Lemme go check.  I'm back....yep, there is one.  I watched it and I'm not sure but what that won't whet the appetite of war gamers everywhere.   
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by bairdlander2 »

ORIGINAL: Xian

Grigsby games are by now a known quantity. You generally know what you will get
Then how do you explain WaW.It was the one of the worst games I ever purchased and as can be seen it has been discontinued,so a good name doesnt always guarentee good product.
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by Mynok »

ORIGINAL: Ascended

I have a proposal for those of you who say you're certain I'll love the game for years to come.

Buy me the game.

If I like it, I'll pay you your money back. If I find I don't, I'll return the license to you and you'll have yourself an extra copy of the game.

No?

See...

I'll take your bait. Done. PM me your email.

I bought the game solely on the basis of reading AARs and asking questions in the forums here. I've not been disappointed.
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by Oleg Mastruko »

ORIGINAL: bairdlander
Then how do you explain WaW.It was the one of the worst games I ever purchased and as can be seen it has been discontinued,so a good name doesnt always guarentee good product.

I can't let this pass - WAW really is an excellent game. Truely great design. In as much as game design involves abstraction, I would dare say WAW is even better or more advanced than WITE and WITP (and I played and play both of those for thousands of hours).

I understand that WAW is NOT repeat NOT a grognard game, and if you came to that game as a grognard of course you were disappointed. You simply should have read about the game in advance - it was clearly labelled as abstracted, beginner-to-intermediate, grand strategic game, where whole of WW2 can be played in 5-6 hour session. If you expected more detail than that hey tough luck, but it was always very clearly advertised....

Having in mind design goals of WAW that game is one of the best wargames ever made IMO. If 2by3's design goals didn't fit your own agenda or wishes in that particular case, that does not necessarilly make the game "bad". It works as designed, and is/was pretty bug free.
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by bairdlander2 »

I dont recall anything on the box saying anything like you just said.If its such a great title why discontinued and why was it on sale for $3 in the store I purchased from 3 months after I bought it.Face the facts it sucked.
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by bairdlander2 »

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

I dont recall anything on the box saying anything like you just said.If its such a great title why discontinued and why was it on sale for $3 in the store I purchased from 3 months after I bought it.
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by Ascended »

Wow, done :)
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by Ascended »

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

I dont recall anything on the box saying anything like you just said.If its such a great title why discontinued and why was it on sale for $3 in the store I purchased from 3 months after I bought it.Face the facts it sucked.

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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by jzardos »

I bought the game several weeks back. For me I was able to discover how I would like or dislike the game from the AARs, misc forum threads, and all the beautiful screen shots on the Matrix site. So personally I think a demo is not needed. In fact, I agree with others that I would rather see the time spent on game/editor improvements rather than working in code for a demo.

So a demo is not needed for a game like WitE. Look through the AARs and screen shots and I think most would know if this is a game for them or not.

For a game like this, I can't see the cost justification for a demo. Most people already know they like games like this or not.
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by Ascended »

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Maybe instead of a full-blown demo people can watch a video of WITE gameplay.  I believe there's already a demo video on U-tube for WITE.  Lemme go check.  I'm back....yep, there is one.  I watched it and I'm not sure but what that won't whet the appetite of war gamers everywhere.   

Video Link
Adding the link to your post.
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by Berkut »

What they should do, and I said this long ago, is simply make the manual available for download.
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by larryfulkerson »

Hopefully, an up to date one instead of the one we have now. 
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by Ascended »

Nice review

I love the site.
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by Antonin »

ORIGINAL: jzardos

I bought the game several weeks back. For me I was able to discover how I would like or dislike the game from the AARs, misc forum threads, and all the beautiful screen shots on the Matrix site. So personally I think a demo is not needed. In fact, I agree with others that I would rather see the time spent on game/editor improvements rather than working in code for a demo.

So a demo is not needed for a game like WitE. Look through the AARs and screen shots and I think most would know if this is a game for them or not.

For a game like this, I can't see the cost justification for a demo. Most people already know they like games like this or not.

For me it's not a matter of whether or not I will like the game. I know I would like it. The problem is: will it run on my PC? My computer is 6 years old and does meet the recommended specifications. But there are other games I've downloaded demos for that run poorly on my machine even though it comfotrably meets their recommended specs.

For the price Matrix is asking for this game, I would like to be sure. The economy being what it is, I can't justify spending a lot of money just to see.

Computer games are a luxury. I don't have money to throw away.
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by abulbulian »

ORIGINAL: Antonin
ORIGINAL: jzardos

I bought the game several weeks back. For me I was able to discover how I would like or dislike the game from the AARs, misc forum threads, and all the beautiful screen shots on the Matrix site. So personally I think a demo is not needed. In fact, I agree with others that I would rather see the time spent on game/editor improvements rather than working in code for a demo.

So a demo is not needed for a game like WitE. Look through the AARs and screen shots and I think most would know if this is a game for them or not.

For a game like this, I can't see the cost justification for a demo. Most people already know they like games like this or not.

For me it's not a matter of whether or not I will like the game. I know I would like it. The problem is: will it run on my PC? My computer is 6 years old and does meet the recommended specifications. But there are other games I've downloaded demos for that run poorly on my machine even though it comfotrably meets their recommended specs.

For the price Matrix is asking for this game, I would like to be sure. The economy being what it is, I can't justify spending a lot of money just to see.

Computer games are a luxury. I don't have money to throw away.


IMO I think this is a very poor reason to spend development time on a demo. There are reasons for minimum specs on games, it's not just wasted print on the box. Let's say you play the demo and it works fine for what you're able to do in a small demo campaign. Then you buy the game and find out that playing a full campaign just doesn't run on your computer because of the memory footprint (or some other reason).

Now what? I guess the logic of a demo for your situation makes no sense, because you're still not happy.

I would prefer and hope that no development time is EVER EVER EVER wasted on a demo for this game. There's just too many options for people to determine if they will like it. Frankly speaking, if you've ever bought any strategy war game other than WiTE since 2011, it wasn't the best use of your money. This is the best money I've ever spent on any game of any genre.

There's been no argument and will not ever be a valid argument to have a demo for this game. Sorry that is just the way it is.
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by Apollo11 »

Hi all,
ORIGINAL: Antonin

For me it's not a matter of whether or not I will like the game. I know I would like it. The problem is: will it run on my PC? My computer is 6 years old and does meet the recommended specifications. But there are other games I've downloaded demos for that run poorly on my machine even though it comfotrably meets their recommended specs.

For the price Matrix is asking for this game, I would like to be sure. The economy being what it is, I can't justify spending a lot of money just to see.

Computer games are a luxury. I don't have money to throw away.

For what is worth I tried WitE during ALPHA/BETA on my 5+ years old IMB ThinkPad Notebooks at work and game worked just fine (please note that player can adjust game settings to speed up things) - the game was playable... [;)]

Also, there is no real-time action in games like WitE (i.e. there is no 3D action that needs 30 FPS for example) - this is strategic wargame played on map where turns last hours to make - so such simulations can almost always work on old hardware just fine! [:)]


Leo "Apollo11"
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by Antonin »

ORIGINAL: abulbulian
There's been no argument and will not ever be a valid argument to have a demo for this game. Sorry that is just the way it is.

No, that's not just the way it is. That's just your opinion, which is worth no more and no less than mine.
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RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo

Post by Antonin »

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

For what is worth I tried WitE during ALPHA/BETA on my 5+ years old IMB ThinkPad Notebooks at work and game worked just fine (please note that player can adjust game settings to speed up things) - the game was playable... [;)]

Also, there is no real-time action in games like WitE (i.e. there is no 3D action that needs 30 FPS for example) - this is strategic wargame played on map where turns last hours to make - so such simulations can almost always work on old hardware just fine! [:)]


Leo "Apollo11"

Thank you very much for your comments. Your response to my concerns was actually helpful--something one rarely finds in Internet forums.

Good gaming to you! [:)]
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