countering ASW?

[bush]

It is now mid '44 in my game and my US subs are getting slaughtered by the super Es. What is my best strategy to counteract these demons?

[JeffroK]

Where are your advanced bases and where are you suffering the most?

I found in a late war game and in Downfall that LR Privateers and Liberators could supress them a bit.

Do you have an idea where they base from, can you hit them in port. (B29's?)

Draw back your sub lines a bit, or are you in a position where you absolutely must be hitting the LOC?

Something I havent tried, do sub wolfpacks give you more of a chance or just more targets for the E's?

[bush]

My current main sub pens are Adak Is., Manus Is., and Dagua.

I do not know where they are based from.

Actually, these are not technically ASW ops, rather just escorts for merchies.

[crsutton]

Whine like a castrated hound until somebody finally fixes the dang thing....[;)]

[Chickenboy]

Ah wooooo! Ah wooooooo!!!

[oldman45]

Keep your subs out of shallow water if you can and if all else fails, pull them out and send them to port. That late in the war do you really need your subs out there?

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Whine like a castrated hound until somebody finally fixes the dang thing....[;)]

I was having the same problem for the first half of 1944 lost 30-35 subs. I have since changed to the latest beta and the loss rate has slowed down, 2 lost in a month but I do get more damaged subs. The Beta has not changed the code for ASW but the database for the dreaded E (and others). My advice is play the beta.

[CV Zuikaku]

But dreaded Es did have this enormous ratings (12+ DC launchers) in RL. But they are often just too slow to catch the subs. What changed in beta? Are they neutered like Judy? And in what way?

[greg_slith]

I see there is a depth check now. Many anti-sub attacks have "Depth charge pattern detonates above sub depth". Especially when it is the smaller PB, PC and SC types against my fleet boats in deep water. These are Jap ASW vs US subs. I have NOT seen this when it is allied ASW vs Jap subs, nor would I expect too.

[String]

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku

But dreaded Es did have this enormous ratings (12+ DC launchers) in RL. But they are often just too slow to catch the subs. What changed in beta? Are they neutered like Judy? And in what way?

The DC racks were divided into smaller units, as it was not historical procedure to drop all twelve at once.

[viberpol]

ORIGINAL: String

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku
But dreaded Es did have this enormous ratings (12+ DC launchers) in RL. But they are often just too slow to catch the subs. What changed in beta? Are they neutered like Judy? And in what way?

The DC racks were divided into smaller units, as it was not historical procedure to drop all twelve at once.

What? [&:]
Really? [X(]
String, where has been this database change introduced?
Are you talking about the official scenario(s) or a mod?
Is there a decrease of say... Tacoma class PF (with 8C4 and 2R2 DC racks) ASW capabilities?
Are they divided by two, too?

I see the changelog for p4 and it says:
[1108p4]
Tweaked Added depth check on DC in ASW combat [DCB]

...for changing the effectiveness of ASW.

But is it a bug fix or a hidden "steal" of the Japanese E ASW capability (so called "super Es") or a game change affecting equally both sides?
Great, just great... [8|]

[String]

ORIGINAL: viberpol

ORIGINAL: String

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku
But dreaded Es did have this enormous ratings (12+ DC launchers) in RL. But they are often just too slow to catch the subs. What changed in beta? Are they neutered like Judy? And in what way?

The DC racks were divided into smaller units, as it was not historical procedure to drop all twelve at once.

What? [&:]
Really? [X(]
String, where has been this database change introduced?
Are you talking about the official scenario(s) or a mod?
Is there a decrease of say... Tacoma class PF (with 8C4 and 2R2 DC racks) ASW capabilities?
Are they divided by two, too?

I see the changelog for p4 and it says:
[1108p4]
Tweaked Added depth check on DC in ASW combat [DCB]

...for changing the effectiveness of ASW.

But is it a bug fix or a hidden "steal" of the Japanese E ASW capability (so called "super Es") or a game change affecting equally both sides?
Great, just great... [8|]

tm.asp?m=2849954

Here, it's apparently in the Da Babes mod.

[viberpol]

I see the changelog for p4 and it says:
[1108p4]
Tweaked Added depth check on DC in ASW combat [DCB]
...for changing the effectiveness of ASW.

But is it a bug fix or a hidden "steal" of the Japanese E ASW capability (so called "super Es") or a game change affecting equally both sides?
Great, just great... [8|]

ORIGINAL: ecwgcx
I see there is a depth check now. Many anti-sub attacks have "Depth charge pattern detonates above sub depth". Especially when it is the smaller PB, PC and SC types against my fleet boats in deep water. These are Jap ASW vs US subs. I have NOT seen this when it is allied ASW vs Jap subs, nor would I expect too.

So it seems to be another case when complains/lobbying lead to changing the rules of ongoing games? Pity. [:(]
Any comments from more newest beta users?
How that change affected the Japanese E ASW capability?

[oldman45]

The changes effected all asw platforms that had a large number of launchers.

[USSAmerica]

The sky is falling!  The sky is falling! [X(]  [8|]  [:D]

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: viberpol

I see the changelog for p4 and it says:
[1108p4]
Tweaked Added depth check on DC in ASW combat [DCB]
...for changing the effectiveness of ASW.

But is it a bug fix or a hidden "steal" of the Japanese E ASW capability (so called "super Es") or a game change affecting equally both sides?
Great, just great... [8|]

ORIGINAL: ecwgcx
I see there is a depth check now. Many anti-sub attacks have "Depth charge pattern detonates above sub depth". Especially when it is the smaller PB, PC and SC types against my fleet boats in deep water. These are Jap ASW vs US subs. I have NOT seen this when it is allied ASW vs Jap subs, nor would I expect too.

So it seems to be another case when complains/lobbying lead to changing the rules of ongoing games? Pity. [:(]
Any comments from more newest beta users?
How that change affected the Japanese E ASW capability?

Out of respect for Polish-American international relations, I will withhold all comments....[:D]

[CV Zuikaku]

Good thing! Just tone down every effective platform Japanese player has... for "balance" sake... [:D]

[String]

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku

Good thing! Just tone down every effective platform Japanese player has... for "balance" sake... [:D]

Because the E platforms were so effective historically, right?

[CV Zuikaku]

ORIGINAL: String

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku

Good thing! Just tone down every effective platform Japanese player has... for "balance" sake... [:D]

Because the E platforms were so effective historically, right?

And in the game are overpowered???! It's been late '44 in my game. And "dreaded super Es" are not spreading fear and panic in my opponent's sub fleet. Most of the time they are just unable to detect subs (as historical). Most of the time, they are just too slow to react to subs when forming ASW group (as historical). Most of the time they are easy prey for subs (being slow). I have multiple ASW groups (consisted of "super" Es operating near Singapore. I have based several dedicated ASW squadrons there. And "super Es" are not very efficient. Subs are killing them more often then they kill subs. Most of the time they can't detect sub or abandon search (as historical) And when they do attack with 12X DC launchers... in 4-5 repeated runs they score 1 direct hit if any. Rarely they score multiple direct hits (penetrating hits). And most of the time they just damage sub and force her to leace the area for repairs (which is good for me). And that is overpowered?! So I really don't see any need to nerf them further. Or do Japanese player needs another useless asset? Tone down Judy, tone down Es- and what's next? Why just don't strip all Japanese ships of weapons so they can not hurt anybody??

[viberpol]

ORIGINAL: USS America
The sky is falling!  The sky is falling! [X(]  [8|]  [:D]

No, not really USS America.
Lucky you. America didn't go bankrupt last night! Enjoy! [:D] [;)]

I feel CV Zuikaku is somehow right here.
I find it kind of pity, that those who shout louder gets more... [:(]

Zero bonus? Who needs Zero bonus?
Judy had (in game terms) too long legs? Cut them!
Japanese ASW capability too good? Introduce some changes that limit the depth charges.
This Tweaked Added depth check on DC in ASW combat [DCB]
is not a fix. It's a tweak... something new added.

Was the code broken? I don't know, maybe yes, maybe not... but I smell a rat here.
I have no objection against fixing some bugs, but changing the rules of game when the cards are on table is a different matter...[8|]

But, seriously... from an objective perspective...
Just please remind me any latest change that affected/limited Allied player? [&:]

And show me a gameplay change that brought more fun and benefited a JFB solely?
Maybe limit the 4Es A2A capabilities or make them withdraw when damaged or not escorted?
Nooo... just this: Tweaked Group stacking on base with AF 6+ gains a 1/3 lowering of the "Aircraft Stack Level" for 4E planes which actually makes more of them operational.

Oh, well... why bother... next time I'll just play Allies...
but, wait, will there be Japanese players willing to sacrifice? [:D]