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sapper32
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by sapper32 »

Hey Guys just a heads up from the Allied team war in the west it seems that the game is set up that units appear on the map or activate just prior tp the historical invasion dates so as it turns out while i have been on holiday my co commander has been invaded and a lot of his forces are not yet even on the map,the only solution i see to this is to go back a few turns and start over invasions that are started early give the Axis a massive advantage as a lot of our forces are not on the map or are still awaiting activasion while the axis hordes surge across france/denmark and the low countries.
What say you??

Ian
The battle of Medjerda is almost forgotten,but was fought against highly disciplined German troops and blasted a route straight to Tunis it was a perfect infiltration battle and should be remembered as the best fought British battle of the war.
macgregor
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by macgregor »

The easy answer for me is that while I think a scenario that encompasses the entire war should offer some flexibility, I'm willing to be held to the historic dates of major operations. I waited until the historic date for Weserubung even though they activated a turn earlier. Like I said, the PO would likely attack as soon as countries were activated. What I don't understand, is why the scenario would announce in the news a historic start of an operation, yet expect me to wait until afterward, at potentially great cost. Hopefully we'll hear from the designer.
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sapper32
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by sapper32 »

Yes i agree to some flexibility but i dont think this scenario is realy set up for it with forces only becoming available at the last moment there are huge gaps in the french defense from the start with forces still in garrison mode even though the axis are 2 weeks into an invasion we either tweak the scenario or wait untill invasion dates are near historical.
The battle of Medjerda is almost forgotten,but was fought against highly disciplined German troops and blasted a route straight to Tunis it was a perfect infiltration battle and should be remembered as the best fought British battle of the war.
macgregor
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by macgregor »

We're in agreement. I'll do whatever it takes. I'd certainly rather see the proper forces set up, or it defeats the purpose of the game. Is 'tweaking it' really an option? I've messaged a one Gary Skaar on both Facebook and myspace in hopes of reaching him. Hopefully there's someone who knows him that will facilitate us finding out what is supposed to occur. His listed email vikingson69@hotmail.com is unavailable.
macgregor
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by macgregor »

Flaws have been discovered in the events engine. Potentially due to player 1 not loading the scenario in the editor and saving it, though I've been told events still have to be checked. Hopefully someone who has experience can fix it in a fraction of the time it would take a novice like me to familiarize. I've asked for help and am crossing my fingers that we can avoid restart.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by sPzAbt653 »

I might not mind trying to figure it out. What scenario and what is the problem? Also, have you made any changes to the scenario ?
macgregor
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by macgregor »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I might not mind trying to figure it out. What scenario and what is the problem? Also, have you made any changes to the scenario ?
Thanks sPzAbt653. The scenario is 'War in the West 2.0' for acow. The problem has been so far with the Danish and Norwegian units showing up ontime to defend for weserubung. The allied player also has mentioned that French and BEF reinforcements have not been historically consistent. I'm beginning to worry that without a thorough check, there may be other glitches.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Send me a copy of the scenario file, that way we are sure that we are using the same thing.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by sPzAbt653 »

... French and BEF reinforcements have not been historically consistent.

Could you be specific on this one?

Meanwhile, I took a look at the scenario I found at RD and concerning the Danish and Norwegian units, they are all scheduled to arrive from turns 32-40, while the German units for Weserubung arrive turns 31-32. If the German player has the initiative, this means he gets a one turn jump on the Allies (two turns if you are for some reason playing with new turn order rules on).

The German units should probably be set to arrive starting on turn 32 (April 6, 1940), or the Allies should be set back one turn to start at turn 31 (March 30, 1940).

Looking thru the 290 events, the only one that stood out as being odd was this one, I've never put a negative value in this field so I don't know if it will work as intended. But its easy enough to change it to what we are used to seeing here, that being a value of 75.

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macgregor
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by macgregor »

Well thanks for doing that(Steve). Sapper32(Ian)was telling me about some French not being ready and that the BEF was arriving in France way too late. It'd be great if we could find the intention of the designer, but I'd be content to see the units appear on time. While France, Low countries, Denmark and Norway all appeared to activate on turn 30, turn 32 passed, the news announced the historical start to Weserubung, and there were still no units opposing the Germans. If there is a variable to when the German can start, there should be some way to find out beside when the allied units show up. I'll try to get Ian to post.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by sPzAbt653 »

One other oddity in events - Events 96 and 98 appear to be related, but I can't see what the point is. It may be that the action should be 'Event Activated' rather than 'Event Canceled'. There are no 'Cancel Event' events, so ev98 wouldn't be effective this way. It appears that at start the Axis have a positive Shock Value while the Allies have a negative Shock Value. The intended effect of ev96 and ev98 (and corresponding events 97 and 99 for the Allies) might be that the at start shock differential is canceled out (100 turns after turn1).

I'm happy to fix these items for you guys, but I do suggest that you restart, and do not use new turn order rules. I apologize to Gary for tinkering with his scenario, but as he hasn't responded to this and other threads, and hasn't been seen around here for a couple of years, I suppose it is ok.

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sapper32
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by sapper32 »

Thanks for Steve taking a look at the scenario,One issue was that having an early invasion of France ie before may 1940 leaves a lot of French units not on the map or in garrison mode to activate on turn 35/36 not good as if the Germans invade France on turn 32 we dont have a defence why units arrive so late im not sure the BEF arrives on turn 30 early 1940 when realy they arrived in force in late 39 thats no big deal but just inconsistant.On playing turn 31i saw in the expected reinforcements that the Danish army had withdrawn from the map did Denmark get invaded?
Also Norweigan army set to appear on turn 32 Greg mail me saying that they hadnt??? I havnt had turn 32 yet so have not checked this out.
Ive played a test game until turn 37 everything seemed to run smoothly denmark was invaded and copenhagen fell causing the danish army to disband next turn.On turn 32 the norweigan army appeared on the allied turn so when turn 32 starts and the axis play there turn there are no norweigan units on the map strange so i invaded norway on turn 33 Oslo has fallen and norways army should disband after 10 turns i think.
The battle of Medjerda is almost forgotten,but was fought against highly disciplined German troops and blasted a route straight to Tunis it was a perfect infiltration battle and should be remembered as the best fought British battle of the war.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Thanks for the clarifications, I'll go thru them one by one.
... a lot of French units not on the map or in garrison mode to activate on turn 35/36 ...

True.
... if the Germans invade France on turn 32 we dont have a defence ...

True. Many German units arrive well before turn 32.
... the BEF arrives on turn 30 early 1940 when realy they arrived in force in late 39 ...

True. We can change them to arrive earlier, but the Exclusion Zone being removed on turn 32 is also a factor.
... the Danish army had withdrawn from the map did Denmark get invaded?

It looks like the Danes withdraw if Kobenhaven is captured. I don't know what happened, maybe an Axis naval unit moved into the hex and 'captured' it ? [Both sides are assigned blue flags in the oob, but I don't think this has any effect on hex ownership. Not sure though as I've never done something like that].
... Norweigan army set to appear on turn 32 Greg mail me saying that they hadnt???


Some are set to arrive on turn 32, some later. If the Germans had already invaded, they may have blocked the arriving locations. Without actually seeing it, I wouldn't really be able to tell why the Norwegies and Danes are having troubles.
On turn 32 the norweigan army appeared on the allied turn ...

I think you may be playing with New Turn Order Rules on ? This causes player 2's reinforcements to appear at the start of their turn (as opposed to the start of player 1's turn) which causes problems.
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sapper32
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by sapper32 »

Thanks for your input Steve looks like we are getting ready to start again so look forward to the comming battles and hope we have a smoth run through this time.
The battle of Medjerda is almost forgotten,but was fought against highly disciplined German troops and blasted a route straight to Tunis it was a perfect infiltration battle and should be remembered as the best fought British battle of the war.
macgregor
Posts: 999
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:44 pm

RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by macgregor »

So the only way to have the Allies show up on time is for the Axis to leave themselves with the old disadvantage of supply calculation? This isn't working for me I'm sorry. It defeats the reasoning behind blitzkrieg. There has to be another way. I'll wait until turn 35 to attack Denmark. Don't make me play with this system.
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sapper32
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by sapper32 »

That works for me i suppose this is a minor glich in running an old scenario on a new patch we will play with the turn order rules on
The battle of Medjerda is almost forgotten,but was fought against highly disciplined German troops and blasted a route straight to Tunis it was a perfect infiltration battle and should be remembered as the best fought British battle of the war.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by sPzAbt653 »

I can move the Danes and Norwegies to appear one turn earlier, then you would overcome the effect of New Turn Order Rules on them. For the rest of the scenario it remains to be seen what effects there might be, especially if there are initiative shifts.
macgregor
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by macgregor »

That would be great. But it won't be able to help this game I'm afraid.
We'll just have to attack a turn later. The old turn order leaves the Germans at too much of a disadvantage as far as supply calculation is concerned.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by sPzAbt653 »

I think I'm missing your point on the supply calculation. Maybe you could explain it when you get a chance ?
macgregor
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RE: World War II -Yeah, the whole war

Post by macgregor »

Well Germans are player 1. If Allied units can cutoff Axis from supply and have it take immediate effect, then so should the Germans be afforded that luxury. The old order would leave player 2's units in supply for their turn.
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