Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas

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Encircled
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RE: Blizzard!

Post by Encircled »

I find an excel spreadsheet keeping track of German Pz and Motorised units very useful.

Carpets are great around the Panzers, but a waste around the infantry, unless you are planning to kick off your own offensive at the same time as the Germans.
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RE: Blizzard!

Post by 76mm »

ORIGINAL: Encircled
Carpets are great around the Panzers, but a waste around the infantry, unless you are planning to kick off your own offensive at the same time as the Germans.
This is true...
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Q-Ball
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RE: Blizzard!

Post by Q-Ball »

3/19/42: Production Notes

CARPET, ETC: I understand the debate on Carpets and depth.

Assuming any front-line hex can be blasted by infantry, the real thing you want is to force attacks on that 2nd and 3rd line to be Deliberate ones. For this reason, carpets of weak units do nothing, because Panzers can brush them aside. If the Panzers have to attack a decent 1942 Rifle Division in a size-2 fort, then generally a HASTY attack won't cut it.

I will post details of the front, but don't look at today; I am really digging in advance at this point.

Building the Red Army:

I plan to build 20-ish Tank Corps in April, and to attach to each one 2 Sapper Regts, and maybe a Tank Bn. I realize the Tank Bn is a bit redundant, but why not? I will wait for the pool to start to show a surplus, but if it does, I will start to expand the number of tanks out there.

I am already including 2 Tank Bn and 1 Sapper Regt with each Cav Corps; sort of a poor-man's mech corps.

As for RESERVES, I don't have tons right now because we are digging, but plan on building a large reserve. I will do this mostly by moving new units to the front, and pulling alot of Guards and better Rifle units for the rear. I plan on not have ANY Tank Corps or Cavalry at the front, but rather hangingn out in back for counterattacks, etc. I should have 10 Cav Corps and 20 Tank Corps by Summer Offensive. Cavalry is so useful, I am thinking of building more Cav Divisions/Corps.

Red Air Force:

I spent alot of APs swapping out Bi-Planes for real fighters, mostly Yak-1 and LAGG-3, both of which I have plenty of.

I am temporarily short of bombers for now, though once my IL-2 production increases and I get some US bombers in play, I can ramp it up a bit. In the meantime, I am packing the front with fighters, to at least contest the Luftwaffe control.

Unlike the crappy tanks we get from Lend-Lease, those US Bombers are pretty high quality, and will be useful.

Production:

Production is recovering from factory repairs from all our moves. I am in good shape for Armaments, for now at least. Vehicles are OK, though I can't go crazy with Vehicle-hogging units.

I would like some feedback on how my numbers look. Keep in mind my IL-2 will expand, and the T-34s are in the midst of expanding (now that they have recovered damage from moving).

I think I'm in good shape in Tank Production.

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Klydon
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RE: Blizzard!

Post by Klydon »

Your 20 tank corps are going to cost 400 points to build if I remember correctly. That is going to hurt. Also you may try to figure out the ToE differences in tanks between 3 tank brigades and a tank corps and figure out how many T-34's you are going to need. No sense in blowing points for 20 if you only have tanks for 15. Given how bad he hurt you industry wise, etc and how happy you were with them during the winter counter offensive, etc I think building more cav corps is a good idea. Those tank battalions will turn to regiments at some point, so they will get tougher.

I would get started building the tank battalions now. They have their own experience/moral, etc and as with any unit when it is first formed, it sucks (in the 20's). Given the experience hit the tank corps take when formed, having some tank battalions that have been around for awhile and are more experienced will help I think. Same for your sapper regiments.
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RE: Blizzard!

Post by Mehring »

Assuming you're still ok with APs, you can do both. The 42a Tank Corps TOE is very tank light. You will get returns from your corps to add to the pool. These can go towards the battalions. When the corps TOE changes a few months later, they lose their heavies and gain more lights and mediums for a net increase.
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RE: Blizzard!

Post by Flaviusx »

Q-ball, I roll with with 2 tank battalions and 1 sapper for the tank corps, mostly to offset the early TOE weakness. Mileage may vary, and if AFV production is too tight for you, then going sapper heavy is a good alternative. In the long run, your package may even better. 2 tank battalions with later tank corps tends to make the tank corps a tad heavy on armor. It's not necessarily an ideal package for a 44 tank corps, for example, but by that point I'm not keen on doing the micro to correct things. 2 sappers and 1 tank battalion can see you through the war.

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RE: Blizzard!

Post by Mynok »


Even with the reduced effects of the 41 winter, I don't see any reason to think that German infantry in 42 are nearly as capable of blowing open holes for the panzers like 41 infantry. They will almost certainly require panzer assistance to do so. This reduces the size of pockets.

Exceptions must be noted of course, as I've seen a couple AAR's where 42 Germans made hash of Soviet defenses. fiva's would be one of them.

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RE: Blizzard!

Post by randallw »

You may want to check your leader list when deploying the armor; Soviet leaders tend to have awful mech ratings.
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RE: Blizzard!

Post by ComradeP »

I wouldn't be too worried about placing 2 Tank battalions in a Tank corps, as long as your production can sustain it. Opinions will vary, but I prefer to concentrate firepower in as few units as possible as the Soviets ("few" is of course still not truly "few in number" but "as few as possible"). Also keep in mind that you can create heavy tank support units later on, which are (I believe) the only units that will use your pool of KV's and IS's (Tank brigades no longer have heavy tanks in their TOE starting with the 42b Tank brigade).
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RE: Blizzard!

Post by Pawlock »

The only problem I can see with having 2 tank battalions as SU's for tank corps is the fact that they are also vehicle hogs which add up in the big scheme of things.
Personally I go 1 tank,1 sapper and 1 AT . I go the AT route as you normally have shedloads of these and the right TOE 's arnt that much a vehicle hog.

Of course these are all personal prefences.
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RE: Blizzard!

Post by pompack »

ORIGINAL: Pawlock

The only problem I can see with having 2 tank battalions as SU's for tank corps is the fact that they are also vehicle hogs which add up in the big scheme of things.
Personally I go 1 tank,1 sapper and 1 AT . I go the AT route as you normally have shedloads of these and the right TOE 's arnt that much a vehicle hog.

Of course these are all personal prefences.

I seem to remember an earlier thread that stated there were additional trucks required when a non-mobile SU was assigned to a mobile unit. I believe that the extra trucks showed up in the parent unit, not the SU.
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RE: Blizzard!

Post by ComradeP »

The vehicle requirements only really start to increase when the Tank regiments get some infantry and other support and even then, they're not too high when taking into account what you get in return. The Soviet vehicle situation has been improved somewhat recently, so finding the vehicles shouldn't be too much of a problem. You'd only need about 50 in any case.
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RE: Blizzard!

Post by Flaviusx »

The real vehicle hogs are the mech corps. You can fit out literally dozens of tank battalions with trucks for the price of a single mech corps. If you want to economize on trucks...don't build many mech corps.

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RE: Blizzard!

Post by Q-Ball »

It would be helpful if someone put together a table of Vehicle costs for the various units. It would allow you to plan ahead more.

From what I can tell, a full Mech Corps is about 3,500 Vehicles. A Tank Corps after mid-'42 is around 2,000. A Tank Regt. is about 180 or so, after it picks up infantry. I think.

But it would be nice if there was a summary somewhere.
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RE: Blizzard!

Post by Klydon »

The tank battalions show 76 trucks, which should not be too bad I would think. This is in line with what a tank brigade has ratio wise (3 trucks per tank) and while a tank battalion can be put in a corps, a tank brigade takes a stacking spot. Just took a quick look at tank corps and they run over 4 trucks to 1 tank (nee more for other stuff in the division most likely).

I don't know that I am a big fan of defensive support units (anti-tank units) in with what is considered an offensive unit, but I could see the thought behind it if you thought it would help against panzer counter attacks. I would think AT units (if you used them) would be better off either in infantry corps or mech corps.
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RE: Blizzard!

Post by Mynok »


Having experienced by tank corps and mech corps in my game with Oleg, the latter are much more to be feared.
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RE: Blizzard!

Post by Pawlock »

Hmm, I was getting confused between tank battalions and tank regiments. Obviously the regiments come along later and are 200plus vehicles a pop.
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RE: Blizzard!

Post by ComradeP »

There seems to be a problem with the cavalry corps, as according to the editor they need a lot more vehicles than they get in the game, so their low vehicle requirements might actually be a bug (or there's a glitch in the editor). The other values should be correct.

Note that this is for a "pure" 100% TOE unit of that type, with no attachments (for the combat units):

Support:

41 Separate Tank Battalion: 62 vehicles.
42 Separate Tank Battalion: 103 vehicles.
42 Separate Tank Regiment: 154 vehicles.
43 Separate Tank Regiment: 218 vehicles.
44a Separate Tank Regiment: 193 vehicles.
44b Separate Tank Regiment: 221 vehicles.

42 Heavy Tank Regiment: 124 vehicles.
44 Heavy Tank Regiment: 170 vehicles.

43 Light SU Regiment: 58 vehicles.
44 Light SU Regiment: 71 vehicles.

43 Medium SU Regiment: 109 vehicles.
44 Medium SU Regiment: 98 vehicles.

43 Heavy SU Regiment: 104 vehicles.
44 Heavy SU Regiment: 153 vehicles.

Combat:

41 Cavalry Corps: 1666 vehicles.
42 Cavalry Corps: 1991 vehicles.
43 Cavalry Corps: 2648 vehicles.

41 Guards Cavalry Corps: 1671 vehicles.
42 Guards Cavalry Corps: 2011 vehicles.
43 Guards Cavalry Corps: 2768 vehicles.

42a Tank Corps: 1086 vehicles.
42b Tank Corps: 1526 vehicles.
43a Tank Corps: 1700 vehicles.
43b Tank Corps: 2526 vehicles.
44 Tank Corps: 2636 vehicles.

42a Guards Tank Corps: 1086 vehicles.
42b Guards Tank Corps: 1568 vehicles.
43a Guards Tank Corps: 1932 vehicles.
43b Guards Tank Corps: 2549 vehicles.
44 Guards Tank Corps: 2785 vehicles.

42 Mechanized Corps: 2900 vehicles.
43a Mechanized Corps: 3176 vehicles.
43b Mechanized Corps: 3385 vehicles.
44 Mechanized Corps: 3423 vehicles.

42 Guards Mechanized Corps: 2900 vehicles.
43a Guards Mechanized Corps: 3188 vehicles.
43b Guards Mechanized Corps: 3390 vehicles.
44 Guards Mechanized Corps: 3431 vehicles.
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RE: Blizzard!

Post by Q-Ball »

3/26/42: Last Snow Turn

Our game is at a bit of a crawl at the moment, mostly because Tarhunnas has some time-off, which is OK. I am off the last two weeks of July, so this AAR is moving SLOOOOW....Summer fun!

Anyway, this turn the Germans did some minor attacking; pushed me back out of Kaluga and Kalinin, which is no big deal. I didn't expect to hold them anyway. Otherwise, very little going on.

I attacked 4-5 targets of opportunity and did fairly well, so this turn is a stalemate.

I will post more information when I have completed the turn, but not much through Sunday.

COMRADE: Thanks for that Vehicle Post. There is something wrong with Cavalry Corps as you say, because they use hardly any Vehicles in practice. In fact, if a Cav Corps uses 1,500 vehicles, it stands to reason that a Cav Division should use at least a couple hundred. But they don't.

I still like Cav Corps, but slightly less now, if they actually consume the Vehicles they are supposed to.
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RE: Blizzard!

Post by pompack »

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

There seems to be a problem with the cavalry corps, as according to the editor they need a lot more vehicles than they get in the game, so their low vehicle requirements might actually be a bug (or there's a glitch in the editor). The other values should be correct.

Note that this is for a "pure" 100% TOE unit of that type, with no attachments (for the combat units):


Combat:

41 Cavalry Corps: 1666 vehicles.
42 Cavalry Corps: 1991 vehicles.
43 Cavalry Corps: 2648 vehicles.

41 Guards Cavalry Corps: 1671 vehicles.
42 Guards Cavalry Corps: 2011 vehicles.
43 Guards Cavalry Corps: 2768 vehicles.

Pieter:
Is this being discussed in the developer forum as yet? Any thoughts from there that can be shared?
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