I'm trying to learn this game, and I am playing the Coral Sea Scenario to understand air-to-air combat. I am having trouble deciphering the combat report. I have searched the manual and the forum with no luck. Please see my color coded comments below. Thanks.
_____________________________________________________
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 13
B5N2 Kate x 13
D3A1 Val x 33
Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 10
Where did these 10 planes come from? (See below for explanation.)
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 4 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 2 destroyed
Allied Ships
CV Yorktown, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Morris, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Hammann
CA Portland
DD Perkins
CA Chicago, Torpedo hits 1
DD Anderson
Aircraft Attacking:
12 x D3A1 Val bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
2 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
17 x D3A1 Val bombing from 20000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
11 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
4 x D3A1 Val bombing from 4000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
OK, these are raids I think.
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
OK, If I understand the manual, at any particular time, 1/3 of my CAP will be airborne, and 2/3rds will be on ready standby, and the remaining non-CAP planes can be scrambled as needed, and so according to this there were no CAP airborne, none on standby, and none scrambled. Why? I have CAP levels set to 30%.
(6 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
Where did these six planes come from if there were 0 CAP engaged?
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
I don't understand this at all. At what point in the battle does the "not yet engaged" number represent? Why were the 6 planes recalled? Did they ever make it into combat? What is "out of immediate contact?
Group patrol altitude is 10000
If there was no CAP, then what group was patrolling at 10000'?
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
Which group? I suppose it could be the 6 planes diverted and recalled?
VF-5 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
These guys had no CAP in the air (why?) and 3 on ready status. Does that mean that 3 planes were in the fight after being launched?
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Again, what does this mean? Why was one plane recalled?
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 19000.
I'm guessing that the 3 fighters on ready status were scrambled to 11k-19k?
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
If some planes are in the air, and some being scrambled, is this the total time it took for the last plane to join the fight? Also, how does all of the above total up to 10 planes engaged from the allied side? 6 from VF2 and 3 from VF5 would be 9 planes.
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Yorktown
Sorry to be so ignorant, but any help is appreciated. Thanks.
Noobie Help Needed
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: Noobie Help Needed
4 x D3A1 Val bombing from 4000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
This is exactly what is says - 4 Vals dropped 250kg SAP bombs from 4000 feet - If you had animations on you would have seen a group of 4 Vals attacking a target.
VF-2 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
OK, If I understand the manual, at any particular time, 1/3 of my CAP will be airborne, and 2/3rds will be on ready standby, and the remaining non-CAP planes can be scrambled as needed, and so according to this there were no CAP airborne, none on standby, and none scrambled. Why? I have CAP levels set to 30%.
(6 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
Where did these six planes come from if there were 0 CAP engaged?
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
I don't understand this at all. At what point in the battle does the "not yet engaged" number represent? Why were the 6 planes recalled? Did they ever make it into combat? What is "out of immediate contact?
Group patrol altitude is 10000
If there was no CAP, then what group was patrolling at 10000'?
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
Which group? I suppose it could be the 6 planes diverted and recalled?
VF2 from the Lexington - CAP - reacted to the raid over the Yorktown and sent six fighters to intercept. These would have come from the standing 30% CAP over the Lexington.
Intercept altitude of 10000 feet 19 minutes to contact raid. And were apparently recalled before contact.
VF5 from the Yorktown had zero planes on cap - and only three available in reserve. Looks like bad luck here - on plane availability rolls.
Raid detected 30 minutes out. 1 plane aborted - recalled and 2 engaged at 11,000 feet.
Last the report you receive in the combat report is not accurate. What did the combat animations indicate?
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
This is exactly what is says - 4 Vals dropped 250kg SAP bombs from 4000 feet - If you had animations on you would have seen a group of 4 Vals attacking a target.
VF-2 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
OK, If I understand the manual, at any particular time, 1/3 of my CAP will be airborne, and 2/3rds will be on ready standby, and the remaining non-CAP planes can be scrambled as needed, and so according to this there were no CAP airborne, none on standby, and none scrambled. Why? I have CAP levels set to 30%.
(6 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
Where did these six planes come from if there were 0 CAP engaged?
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
I don't understand this at all. At what point in the battle does the "not yet engaged" number represent? Why were the 6 planes recalled? Did they ever make it into combat? What is "out of immediate contact?
Group patrol altitude is 10000
If there was no CAP, then what group was patrolling at 10000'?
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
Which group? I suppose it could be the 6 planes diverted and recalled?
VF2 from the Lexington - CAP - reacted to the raid over the Yorktown and sent six fighters to intercept. These would have come from the standing 30% CAP over the Lexington.
Intercept altitude of 10000 feet 19 minutes to contact raid. And were apparently recalled before contact.
VF5 from the Yorktown had zero planes on cap - and only three available in reserve. Looks like bad luck here - on plane availability rolls.
Raid detected 30 minutes out. 1 plane aborted - recalled and 2 engaged at 11,000 feet.
Last the report you receive in the combat report is not accurate. What did the combat animations indicate?
The Wake
RE: Noobie Help Needed
First, I agree that the CAP engaged details are a bit hard to interprete
as the way the action is described can somtimes be quite misleading or have
more than one meaning.
I believe up to a certain point this is intentional, since the possible reasons
for each message set to be shown can be different.
Still I would prefer an a bit more specific set, the current one concentrates too
much on to explain what AND why the fighters are (not) doing something and the messageset
is simply too short to cover this to satisfaction.
Personally I think what they are doing is explaining enough, since why they do it can
be seen from the context and is influenced by too many factors anyway (from morale
to other engagements everythings possble).
Second, you have to be aware that the CR lists all aircraft remotely
in the area of the battle concerned, whether they actually engage in battle or
for some reason are unable to.
Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 10
The 10 Wildcats are every single plane that is made ready, turned around or recalled
some time during the air battle. This includes planes that were returning from another
mission, planes being reassigned to defend against the raid, planes that were engaged in
another battle and after completion, planes on ready5 on the flight deck, planes that
have just been refuelled from another mission, planes on airborne CAP over the TF, planes
on LRCAP,... and so on.
On your specific situation I read the combat report concerning fighters like this:
6 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
This refers to the same unit of planes, they obviousely had a previous different
assignement and were vectored on the incoming strike.
"Not yet engaged" is one of the most misleading messages IMHO, it means that the fighters
are not able to perform the mission assigned because of not specified reasons (but mostly
due to the reason that they are engaged somewhere else).
This was not the case for VF-2 and I assume that all of the fighters were able
to reach interception point.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
This just means that the concerned unit has a set patrol alt at 10k (your alt setting usually).
Nothing more. It also means that fighters launching in the course of a standard CAP pattern
would try to reach this assigned altitude.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
Correct, this message refers to all available fighters from VF-2
VF-5 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
Yes, its a pretty low number, but your CAP was also only set to 30%. Your squads got 27(?) fighters
total, 30% of that is 9(!).
Of those 9 planes the force is split into:
-Airborne CAP
-CAP returning to refuel
-Planes landing
-Planes being refuelled and/or rearmed
-Planes under repair after receiving battle or operational damage
-Planes under maintenance
-Planes on ready5
-Planes scrambling against incoming attacks
....
If you try to imagine what time it takes to perform all those different tasks
you will see that you have been actually lucky those 6 VF-2 planes were in the air.
The 3 planes were probably just getting ready (e.g. being refuelled) and not yet
available to scramble immediately.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
- This is you plane number 10 [;)], just referring to your comment on finding only
9 planes in the combat report.
Use you imagination what it did, it probably also was on another mission assignement
and recalled to support the defense.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 19000.
Correct, in contrast to "patrol altitude" on scramble the fighters obviousely climb to
the best intercept position when an enemy strike is detected.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
This line refers to VF-5, as the 19 minutes report referred to VF-2, so it says nothing
about the 6 airborne VF-2 Wildcats.
It could mean that either it took very long for the standby planes to get ready, or that
the single airborne plane was really out of position.
Youre not ignorant, the CR is just difficult to interprete. You will get used to it.
The best way is to combine information from the CR with the combat replay, you wont
find situations you cannot explain by watching both. Looking at only one of em can give
you information but you have to be aware its only half the story and focuses on different aspects.
I hope this helped.
as the way the action is described can somtimes be quite misleading or have
more than one meaning.
I believe up to a certain point this is intentional, since the possible reasons
for each message set to be shown can be different.
Still I would prefer an a bit more specific set, the current one concentrates too
much on to explain what AND why the fighters are (not) doing something and the messageset
is simply too short to cover this to satisfaction.
Personally I think what they are doing is explaining enough, since why they do it can
be seen from the context and is influenced by too many factors anyway (from morale
to other engagements everythings possble).
Second, you have to be aware that the CR lists all aircraft remotely
in the area of the battle concerned, whether they actually engage in battle or
for some reason are unable to.
Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 10
The 10 Wildcats are every single plane that is made ready, turned around or recalled
some time during the air battle. This includes planes that were returning from another
mission, planes being reassigned to defend against the raid, planes that were engaged in
another battle and after completion, planes on ready5 on the flight deck, planes that
have just been refuelled from another mission, planes on airborne CAP over the TF, planes
on LRCAP,... and so on.
On your specific situation I read the combat report concerning fighters like this:
6 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
This refers to the same unit of planes, they obviousely had a previous different
assignement and were vectored on the incoming strike.
"Not yet engaged" is one of the most misleading messages IMHO, it means that the fighters
are not able to perform the mission assigned because of not specified reasons (but mostly
due to the reason that they are engaged somewhere else).
This was not the case for VF-2 and I assume that all of the fighters were able
to reach interception point.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
This just means that the concerned unit has a set patrol alt at 10k (your alt setting usually).
Nothing more. It also means that fighters launching in the course of a standard CAP pattern
would try to reach this assigned altitude.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
Correct, this message refers to all available fighters from VF-2
VF-5 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
Yes, its a pretty low number, but your CAP was also only set to 30%. Your squads got 27(?) fighters
total, 30% of that is 9(!).
Of those 9 planes the force is split into:
-Airborne CAP
-CAP returning to refuel
-Planes landing
-Planes being refuelled and/or rearmed
-Planes under repair after receiving battle or operational damage
-Planes under maintenance
-Planes on ready5
-Planes scrambling against incoming attacks
....
If you try to imagine what time it takes to perform all those different tasks
you will see that you have been actually lucky those 6 VF-2 planes were in the air.
The 3 planes were probably just getting ready (e.g. being refuelled) and not yet
available to scramble immediately.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
- This is you plane number 10 [;)], just referring to your comment on finding only
9 planes in the combat report.
Use you imagination what it did, it probably also was on another mission assignement
and recalled to support the defense.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 19000.
Correct, in contrast to "patrol altitude" on scramble the fighters obviousely climb to
the best intercept position when an enemy strike is detected.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
This line refers to VF-5, as the 19 minutes report referred to VF-2, so it says nothing
about the 6 airborne VF-2 Wildcats.
It could mean that either it took very long for the standby planes to get ready, or that
the single airborne plane was really out of position.
Youre not ignorant, the CR is just difficult to interprete. You will get used to it.
The best way is to combine information from the CR with the combat replay, you wont
find situations you cannot explain by watching both. Looking at only one of em can give
you information but you have to be aware its only half the story and focuses on different aspects.
I hope this helped.
RE: Noobie Help Needed
ORIGINAL: LoBaron
First, I agree that the CAP engaged details are a bit hard to interprete
as the way the action is described can somtimes be quite misleading or have
more than one meaning.
I believe up to a certain point this is intentional, since the possible reasons
for each message set to be shown can be different.
Still I would prefer an a bit more specific set, the current one concentrates too
much on to explain what AND why the fighters are (not) doing something and the messageset
is simply too short to cover this to satisfaction.
Personally I think what they are doing is explaining enough, since why they do it can
be seen from the context and is influenced by too many factors anyway (from morale
to other engagements everythings possble).
Second, you have to be aware that the CR lists all aircraft remotely
in the area of the battle concerned, whether they actually engage in battle or
for some reason are unable to.
Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 10
The 10 Wildcats are every single plane that is made ready, turned around or recalled
some time during the air battle. This includes planes that were returning from another
mission, planes being reassigned to defend against the raid, planes that were engaged in
another battle and after completion, planes on ready5 on the flight deck, planes that
have just been refuelled from another mission, planes on airborne CAP over the TF, planes
on LRCAP,... and so on.
On your specific situation I read the combat report concerning fighters like this:
6 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
This refers to the same unit of planes, they obviousely had a previous different
assignement and were vectored on the incoming strike.
"Not yet engaged" is one of the most misleading messages IMHO, it means that the fighters
are not able to perform the mission assigned because of not specified reasons (but mostly
due to the reason that they are engaged somewhere else).
This was not the case for VF-2 and I assume that all of the fighters were able
to reach interception point.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
This just means that the concerned unit has a set patrol alt at 10k (your alt setting usually).
Nothing more. It also means that fighters launching in the course of a standard CAP pattern
would try to reach this assigned altitude.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
Correct, this message refers to all available fighters from VF-2
VF-5 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
Yes, its a pretty low number, but your CAP was also only set to 30%. Your squads got 27(?) fighters
total, 30% of that is 9(!).
Of those 9 planes the force is split into:
-Airborne CAP
-CAP returning to refuel
-Planes landing
-Planes being refuelled and/or rearmed
-Planes under repair after receiving battle or operational damage
-Planes under maintenance
-Planes on ready5
-Planes scrambling against incoming attacks
....
If you try to imagine what time it takes to perform all those different tasks
you will see that you have been actually lucky those 6 VF-2 planes were in the air.
The 3 planes were probably just getting ready (e.g. being refuelled) and not yet
available to scramble immediately.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
- This is you plane number 10 [;)], just referring to your comment on finding only
9 planes in the combat report.
Use you imagination what it did, it probably also was on another mission assignement
and recalled to support the defense.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 19000.
Correct, in contrast to "patrol altitude" on scramble the fighters obviousely climb to
the best intercept position when an enemy strike is detected.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
This line refers to VF-5, as the 19 minutes report referred to VF-2, so it says nothing
about the 6 airborne VF-2 Wildcats.
It could mean that either it took very long for the standby planes to get ready, or that
the single airborne plane was really out of position.
Youre not ignorant, the CR is just difficult to interprete. You will get used to it.
The best way is to combine information from the CR with the combat replay, you wont
find situations you cannot explain by watching both. Looking at only one of em can give
you information but you have to be aware its only half the story and focuses on different aspects.
I hope this helped.
Very helpfull for me too! I never found the time to go so deeply through the combat report and the combat replay...but i do now see how much it can explain about what really happened!
Thanks a lot
RE: Noobie Help Needed
Thanks for the information. This is very helpful. I do have combat animations turned on, but the message interval is currently at 2.5 seconds, which does not give me a lot of time to analyze the events in real time. Longer intervals cause the combats to simply take too long (IMO). LoBaron mentioned Combat Replay, which would be extremely helpful, and of which I was unaware, and so I searched the manual. It Seems like, from the manual, that Combat Replays are only available when playing against a human opponent (I am currently playing against the AI). I checked my savegames, and I did not find any Combat Replays. Please let me know if there is some way to get these in single player mode, because it would help to be able to go back and analyze a couple of these battles.
Thanks again for the time spent helping me out.
Rant6
Thanks again for the time spent helping me out.
Rant6
RE: Noobie Help Needed
Sorry that was my fault. I somehow got used to refer to the combat animations as the combat replay (which
in fact is the turnfile in PBEM).
After some time you will turn the combat animations delay down to 1 second or even less and will
not even notice. Also nothing speaks against skipping the replays where the outcome is obvious or
which are of no interest.
in fact is the turnfile in PBEM).
After some time you will turn the combat animations delay down to 1 second or even less and will
not even notice. Also nothing speaks against skipping the replays where the outcome is obvious or
which are of no interest.