War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition

[Jorm]

another excellent book for a history of the Thai air force is

"Aerial Nationalism - A history of Aviation in Thailand" by Edward M. Young'

It has a number of chapters specifically devoted to the Thai air force and its development through the interwar and war years, very interesting read.

I had work buy me a copy, huzzah


now if only we could some how get the French fleet scuttled at Toulon into the scenario

cheers
J

[Skyland]

ORIGINAL: wgs_explorer

Skyland, I also wanted to thank you for the mod as well as the sources (listed) to your mod. The first one (Georges Mandel...) I've located in a local library and the third one (Paradise in Peril) I've located online. It will be excellent reading! Thank you again.

Bill

"The United States and Vietnam, 1787-1941" is also available on Google books. I have other sources but in french.

[Herrbear]

I just noticed that your allied French units are in Location slots 2945 - 2998. According to the Editor Manual, all allied forces must be in slots 5000 - 7999.

[wgs_explorer]

Thank you![:)]

Bill

[Skyland]

ORIGINAL: Herrbear

I just noticed that your allied French units are in Location slots 2945 - 2998. According to the Editor Manual, all allied forces must be in slots 5000 - 7999.

Found no concern during tests but is somebody able to say if it is a critical point ?
Thanks in advance.

[Shark7]

Just found this, and now I have all the rest of the plane art and ship art I need for my own purposes. Very well done Skyland! [&o]

[oldman45]

ORIGINAL: Jorm

now if only we could some how get the French fleet scuttled at Toulon into the scenario

cheers
J

Since I used parts of this mod in mine, I wanted to justify for myself how elements of the French fleet could be there. Well I came up with this idea;

France falls in 1940 but this time there is no Vichey government. Instead the French government flee's to England and the colonies stand with it. The fleet would be split into 3 parts. One would join the British in the Med. One would join the Home Fleet, and the last part would sail to the Pacific. I assume that the Japanese simply roll over the forces in Indochina so the fleet has to make its home in the South Pacific. For the life of me I cannot remember the name of the French possessions there between Suva and Australia. The part that I am still working on is which ships go where, and what army and air forces might get out of Indochina.

[Skyland]

ORIGINAL: oldman45

ORIGINAL: Jorm

now if only we could some how get the French fleet scuttled at Toulon into the scenario

cheers
J

Since I used parts of this mod in mine, I wanted to justify for myself how elements of the French fleet could be there. Well I came up with this idea;

France falls in 1940 but this time there is no Vichey government. Instead the French government flee's to England and the colonies stand with it. The fleet would be split into 3 parts. One would join the British in the Med. One would join the Home Fleet, and the last part would sail to the Pacific. I assume that the Japanese simply roll over the forces in Indochina so the fleet has to make its home in the South Pacific. For the life of me I cannot remember the name of the French possessions there between Suva and Australia. The part that I am still working on is which ships go where, and what army and air forces might get out of Indochina.

Madagascar and its drydock and arsenal could have been a good home port, but it is not in the game unfortunately. Outside Saigon, there was no decent french port facility in New Caledonia or Polynesia able to support a fleet. May be Sydney could be use by the french as home port in your case.

[Skyland]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Just found this, and now I have all the rest of the plane art and ship art I need for my own purposes. Very well done Skyland! [&o]

Thanks.
I am preparing a small update of my mod and i hope i will be able to publish it soon here.

[Skyland]

For those interested in french ships : here is a short movie dated October 1939 where almost all ships are presented.

http://dai.ly/hj5lcE

[oldman45]

Very nice find, thanks

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: oldman45

ORIGINAL: Jorm

now if only we could some how get the French fleet scuttled at Toulon into the scenario

cheers
J

Since I used parts of this mod in mine, I wanted to justify for myself how elements of the French fleet could be there. Well I came up with this idea;

France falls in 1940 but this time there is no Vichey government. Instead the French government flee's to England and the colonies stand with it. The fleet would be split into 3 parts. One would join the British in the Med. One would join the Home Fleet, and the last part would sail to the Pacific. I assume that the Japanese simply roll over the forces in Indochina so the fleet has to make its home in the South Pacific. For the life of me I cannot remember the name of the French possessions there between Suva and Australia. The part that I am still working on is which ships go where, and what army and air forces might get out of Indochina.

While the facilities would be sorely lacking, the French did control New Caledonia, the Marquesas (Tahita with Papeete being the a good location as it is the administrative capital). There are some natural harbors in French Polynesia, though at that time they weren't capable of supporting a fleet. The French holdings in the Pacific were not as well developed as the other nations, so with the loss of Saigon, and being cut off from their Chinese concessions, they'd almost be totally dependent on the UK or US to service their ships.

[el cid again]

The regime in New Caledonia was pro Vichy - as was the one in Indochina. Stupid of course.
The NC regime was replaced - the population was pro Allies. If that had happened in Indochina,
and note that Ho Chi Ming was backing the FRENCH at this time - against other revolutionaries -
things might have been interesting.

[Skyland]

Ok, i took the plunge and have decided to make a dedicated site for my mod files :

https://sites.google.com/site/waroptionswitpaemod/

This is a new version with some additionnals units and minor adjustments.

Note that the slots location of french units is now in accordance with the Editor Manual.

[Jorm]

Great work, ive had a look at the scenario and its very well researched especially for the THAI's, ive done quite a bit in getting info of the RTAF and this mod is really good at creating the OOB for WWII

[dwg]

ORIGINAL: oldman45

ORIGINAL: Jorm

now if only we could some how get the French fleet scuttled at Toulon into the scenario

cheers
J

Since I used parts of this mod in mine, I wanted to justify for myself how elements of the French fleet could be there.

One of the options presented to the French at Mers el Kebir was that they could sail to Martinique and be demilitarized. It seems to me that if the demilitarization proved to be the sticking point (rather than the historical situation of Gensoul getting his nose out of joint at perceived slights and everything spiralling out of control), then they potentially might have settled for the French sailing for Indochina, well beyond German influence. That would give the French a Pacific battleline of Dunkerque, Strasbourg, Provence, and Bretagne, backed by Commandant Teste and a bunch of destroyers. And given that solution they would likely also pick up Lorraine and the four cruisers at Alexandria, Richelieu at Dakar and potentially the cruiser force (Gloire, Georges Leygues and Montcalm) en route to join her.

Which is a tidy little force

Still a Vichy force, of course, but that little technicality didn't stop the Japanese strong-arming them into cooperation and then eventually attacking them anyway. A strong enough force in Indochina might well have chosen to take umbrage at any attempt to strong-arm them, and the Japanese might also have decided that they could not afford so large a force left in their rear while they moved on Singapore. And once the shooting starts, working for a Vichy government several thousand miless away isn't going to make much difference to cooperating with ABDA.

[oldman45]

Not a bad suggestion, but in "my war" there is no Vichey. The government flees to England and the Colonies stand with the exiled government. So while I can do anything I want with the navy, I am trying to make a resonable guess where the units would go. My first pass at this would be the fast modern BB's would be split between the Atlantic and Pacific. The old BB's would stay in the Med. Not sure how to divide up the cruisers and destroyers.

[anarchyintheuk]

Imo basing that kind of fleet there would have been frought w/ difficulties ranging from stocking 13.5" shells to moving the fleet administratrion from NA/Vichy to providing maintenance facilities and personnel sufficient for a fleet base.

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: oldman45

Not a bad suggestion, but in "my war" there is no Vichey. The government flees to England and the Colonies stand with the exiled government. So while I can do anything I want with the navy, I am trying to make a resonable guess where the units would go. My first pass at this would be the fast modern BB's would be split between the Atlantic and Pacific. The old BB's would stay in the Med. Not sure how to divide up the cruisers and destroyers.

Actually, plan was to evacuate government to North Africa. Whole airforce was send there already.
Obviously, there will be no Vichy, and I doubt any colony will ally itself with puppet-government established by Germany.
Also, considering what happened so-far, Italy Navy will cease to exist in 1941, with both England, and France Navies in Mediterranean, so it is safe to assume quite lots of ships will be available for Indian Ocean.

Here is great page about French forces in 1940. You can predict what ships, and airgroups could be available for colony defences.

[oldman45]

That's some nice info, thanks!