Question - On-Map & Off-Map TF Issues & Tips

[Deca]

Before starting my PBEM, I wanted to get an update on any current On-Map & Off-Map TF issues.

After using various site:matrixgames.com +"War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Tech Support" searches, I have the following list which I've compiled and would appreciate if others can help confirm if it's accurate, outdated, or spot on. I also looked over the "What's new" for the Version 1.01.06i and did not find anything that made me believe it was different.



On-Map & Off-Map TF Issues & Tips

There is a know issue with turning TFs around when the TF is in the process of moving from on-map to off-map or off-map to on-map (i.e. in an off-map pipe). These TFs are shown in the off map holding boxes and are effectively moving "through the pipe" from/to the off map base. Players have considerable ability in changing the destinations and home ports of these TFs, but there are a couple of (now) known issues.

1. A TF that is already headed from off map to an on map location may have the on map destination and/or on map home base changed with no known problems.
2. A TF that is headed off map probably can be returned to it's on-map home port using the Return To buttons on the TF screen.
3. A TF that is headed on map maybe can be returned to it's off map home port using Return To buttons.

However:
**For a TF that is currently headed off map, you should NOT change the home port or destination of the TF to an on-map location (with the possible exception of the Return To buttons).
**For a TF that is currently headed on map, you should NOT change destination to an off map base nor to the off map home port. Just don't don't do it.


Tip1:
Some turnaround using Return To buttons may work, players are strongly advised to NOT try and turnaround any TF that is in the pipe. This issue appears to be centered on (but not necessarily limited to) the processing using the map-click method of selecting destination and home port. Results of turnaround while in the off-map pipes are unpredictable, and could result in the TFs (and ships in them) becoming unusable.


Tip2:
If they do get stuck, sometimes it could be freed without 'hacking' the save.
1. Select the hex where the TF is.
2. Select the TF.
3. Press 'Return to Cape Town' in lower left of screen
4. Press 'Back' button.
5. Select the TF again. It may revert back to what it was.
6. Press 'Back' button.
7. Do this once more - Select TF and press 'Back'.
8. And once more for good measure - Select TF and press 'Back'.


Tip3:
Those off-map TFs with the red "9999" reading will come out when they are supposed to - as long as you don't attempt to change their destination or home port. Just like all of the other off-map TFs there is a "number of days" counter that will decrement until it is time for them to exit. However, if you bugger up their destination or home port by trying to change it while they are in the "9999 twilight zone", there is no telling what they will do. BTW - don't worry about fuel or anything else - there won't be a problem. So the moral of the story is - be patient, don't bugger things up by trying to "fix" it, and everything will work out okay.






Note: I didn't create this in the technical forum as I am not reporting on something new, but instead trying to see if the information I have is accurate. If it belongs in the tech support forum, my apologies.

[crsutton]

Off map movement works very well and is one of the reasons that AE is a quantum leap over WITP.
 
My only self imposed rule is to never reverse course in mid move. Otherwise, I have never had a problem. A little planning and you really never should  need to reverse a convoy.
 
 

[bush]

My only issue was that very early in the game I had 2 tankers coming from Aden that have been frozen in the exit box the entire game. Nothing has ever worked in trying to unfreeze them. Not as important now, but losing the 25K tons of fuel capacity early really hurt.

[Deca]

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Off map movement works very well and is one of the reasons that AE is a quantum leap over WITP.

My only self imposed rule is to never reverse course in mid move. Otherwise, I have never had a problem. A little planning and you really never should need to reverse a convoy.

Your self imposed rule will probly help to also reduce any issues & is not only a more realistic approach but has that benefit as well.

ORIGINAL: bushpsu
My only issue was that very early in the game I had 2 tankers coming from Aden that have been frozen in the exit box the entire game. Nothing has ever worked in trying to unfreeze them. Not as important now, but losing the 25K tons of fuel capacity early really hurt.

Do you have any idea what caused or preceded that problem?

[Don Bowen]

In a nutshell, off map TF routing was originally a minor subset of regular TF movement. Note that off map TFs have no real location on the map, just an image in a holding box. If you click on one you don't get x and y coordinates.

In the first developmental version, off map TFs were very simplistic. Players had to manually move the TF from on map to a map edge, then issue a second command to move it off map. Same (in reverse) for moving on to the map. This is because a TF had only one set of movement controls.

The designer, and testers too, wanted more functionality. So we extended the processing to allow a single order for movement onto or off of the map. Players did not have to make one move to map edge, then another to destination. Instead they could select the final destination and the program would handle the two movements. Still one "on map" set with x,y coordinates and one completely different "off map" set without x,y but with a set of range/destination/progress controls. The TF would automatically switch from one set to the other when it reached the map edge (from either direction). Both on-map and off-map movement were calculated to/from the map edge and a rather nice set of code determined the entry/exit point at map edge.

The problem came in with the two sets and the automagic switch. They were set up for a simple set of one-than-the-other. But players began to use "normal" controls for TFs moving onto or off-off the map. Home port and destination changes while off map, return to home port, etc. Each of these stressed the switch between on-map and off-map controls and cracks soon appeared in the process. One big one showed up in testing just a couple of days before scheduled release. Bad one, very bad. It had to do with reversing course in an off-map pipe and caused the auto-switch of controls to become unhitched at one end. No longer was it off map to edge to on map, it was now off-map to off map with no "at the edge". The control logic could not rebuild the off map controls because it wanted a TF going off map to have a map edge from which to calculate distances. We actually considered delaying release (for the nth time) but instead put in a patch that we hoped would work. For a while there was a control that prevented certain types of reversals while in the off map pipe. Especially multiple ones. More issues showed over time. Patches were made, some improvement, but there are still weaknesses.

So, the more one does to change course of TFs in off-map pipes, the greater the chance that a TF will get it's controls crossed and "go 9999". Sometimes it will correct itself, or can be corrected with subsequent move orders. Some times the TF (and the player) and just flat out screwed.

Long winded way of saying let them move normally throught the pipes if you can.

[Deca]

thnx Don for the detailed explanation & your point is well taken to not jack around with TF movement in the pipe

[Mac Linehan]

Don -

An informative, inside view of the excellence personified by AE.

Thank You, Sir -

An enligtened Mac, who will not jack with TF's in off map movement......

[bush]

I learned my lesson the hard way, but nice to hear an explanation of what happened to my "ghost" TF! Thanks Don.