1.04.10 Fulkerson vs Pelton

[kevini1000]

I think I counted 99 partisans.

[larryfulkerson]

I think Pelton is ignoring the partisans.  He is effectively ignoring the isolated Soviet units too, always pushing to the east and evidently it's a good idea....look at the results.  Wow.

[76mm]

Were you able to get any of the industry out of Moscow or the Donbass, or did he get all of it?

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: 76mm
Were you able to get any of the industry out of Moscow or the Donbass, or did he get all of it?

He got all of it. D'oh.

[Krafty]

One would think if you can somehow supply those partisans, you could cut supply to his entire army! Jeeez look at all of them.

[Ketza]

I would love to see Peltons army right about now. He has driven those tanks into the ground and I am sure he is very low on trucks from all the build ups he must be doing.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the turn 11 front lines before any Soviet movement:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the destroyed Soviet units as of turn 11:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Soviet production figures:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the OOB as of turn 11:

[Ketza]

I really dont see how he is doing what he is doing. What are your game settings? How is he overrunning major cities with panzers that should be on their last legs? Are you defending them?

[Klydon]

Crazy game with the Axis going nuts like that. Very impressive on his part. I know Larry has lost a ton of industry as well.

I don't know if it is going to be possible, but if there is anyway you can get an army together by winter, his logistics have to be absolutely shot to the point he is just going to collapse IF the Russians are able to form any type of defense or take any type of offensive action.

I would also consider withdrawing anything up in the Finns area and let them watch across the no move line. You will want as many units as possible to concentrate on the Germans.

Any units left behind his lines should probably look to make their way back to your lines while running across as many rail lines as possible to slow his guys down from making repairs.

[fiva55]

Lol at least you are simulating Stalin rather realistically with stand fast orders. But you
really shouldn't hold your lines so long. Once the Germans are passed them, its time to pull
back. Especially in the south, I believe you could have saved a lot of troops. At very least
you should have pulled back the army northwest from Crimea and used it to reinforce the
gates of Crimea.

Regarding those isolated troops, there is no point in stacking them. Spread them out more
and wreak havoc on his supply lines. At the very least it will force him to eliminate those
troops. As it stands now you have a lot of useless troops behind enemy lines, who are
replaced at a very slow rate since your opponent is taking his time destroying them.

The cities should also be guarded better, by at least one of two infantry divisions. Those
strong points are perfect in tying up troops and delaying the Germans. At least I presume
they were unguarded, since I can't see how all those cities would have fallen so fast.

Anyway, good luck and I hope you survive till the winter. With such an impressive advance,
the Germans must be struggling with their supply line.

[Krafty]

Certainly in the coming turns youll have to be the proud owner of tens of thousands of partisans...ive never seen so many partisan brigades in all my life! Even if the german army is victorious, I would think they would never pacify their newly gained territory. More men will soon be partisans than regular soldiers of the Stavka!


And for the love of god send that cav in Svestopal by ship to Odessa where your partisans currently hold the city, I pulled that trick against Riga in my current PBEM game and totally wrecked the supply to my buddies AGN attacking Leningrad.

[DTurtle]

I'll add to what fiva55 wrote: Looking at the few pictures of your positions after soviet movement - which are more important to understanding what is happening, and why it is happening than pictures from the situation before you move our troops - you seem to be checkerboarding only very little or not at all. In some cases, you have double or triple stacked units on the front in a line, with zero units anywhere behind them. It is no wonder that these deep thrusts by the Axis player are possible.

In addition to that, you seem completely unwilling to pull back troops of your own accord in order to plug holes or strengthen areas which you have identified as critical. On turn 3 you noted the beginning of the Pripyat marsh pocket. When it was closed on turn 5, the vast majority of troops in that pocket had not moved at all, still valiantly defending the border to Germany and the area south of the marshes.

At the same time makes these very deep thrusts and leaves the supply lines relatively undefended, except for their width. If you have those troops sitting around his supply lines and are unwilling to move them back, then at least pressure his supply line and force him to expend movement points and troops in order to clear those lines and keep them open.

Your unwillingness to pull back troops, leads to them defending (or sitting) at the base of his penetrations, just waiting for him to close the pockets. This leads to you lacking troops to put in front of his thrusts, which again causes you to lose more.

What I would love to see (besides screenshots after your movement instead of before) would be another screenshot of the breakdown of losses in the logistics screen. I would be interested to see just how much of your (and his) losses are because of combat, and how many because of attrition, etc. In addition, looking at the OOB, his number of ready tanks, for example, have been steady (or increasing) since turn three. This despite the deep thrusts he has made. This is only possible if they are advancing almost completely unhindered - which also holds true to the deep thrusts.

It would almost be interesting to see how much further an Axis player could get with his tanks if he was facing no opposition at all.

[Panama]

Perhaps Larry thought his opponent would have to take the time to reduce the pockets that were created. Obviously Pelton wasn't under the same impression.

It's always interesting to see what happens if someone says, "What if I did this? Would it be a disaster?" And then does it. Most might not.

[Peltonx]

I figured I would comment on the game up until turn 7 per Larry AAR board rules and answer a few questions.

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Your opponents opening has given you an extra turn or 2 for your Leningrad defence to set up. You should have infantry divisions set on refit in the hexes in or around leningrad starting to dig. With the new 1.04 rules where forts take a bit longer to build you cant lose any time setting up your defence.

I was in the city of Leningrad by turn 5, are you saying you could be in the city be turn 3?

The Germans can walk and chew gum at same time. My spearhead is not used to mop up junk divisions that are cut off.

The one thing I am lacking in my opening is shipping in an infantry div into Riga. So I guess my AGN opening is lacking some, but its not going to cost me any time. I have opened this way 4 times in the past and in another game I just started and I have had no trouble taking Leningrad before September.

My flanks look exposed, but there is nothing Larry can do during 1941. The spearhead is too wide for any Red unit s to close the flanks even if they start right at the front.

[Ketza]

ORIGINAL: Pelton

I figured I would comment on the game up until turn 7 per Larry AAR board rules and answer a few questions.

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Your opponents opening has given you an extra turn or 2 for your Leningrad defence to set up. You should have infantry divisions set on refit in the hexes in or around leningrad starting to dig. With the new 1.04 rules where forts take a bit longer to build you cant lose any time setting up your defence.

I was in the city of Leningrad by turn 5, are you saying you could be in the city be turn 3?

The Germans can walk and chew gum at same time. My spearhead is not used to mop up junk divisions that are cut off.

The one thing I am lacking in my opening is shipping in an infantry div into Riga. So I guess my AGN opening is lacking some, but its not going to cost me any time. I have opened this way 4 times in the past and in another game I just started and I have had no trouble taking Leningrad before September.

My flanks look exposed, but there is nothing Larry can do during 1941. The spearhead is too wide for any Red unit s to close the flanks even if they start right at the front.

Well you are clearly a good Axis player and have achieved results that not many can duplicate. The advice that was given to Larry by me was based on your turn one dispositions and if Larry had taken a different approach perhaps you might not have advanced as far as you did so quickly. Would it have changed the outcome of you getting Leningrad? Probably not now that we see how efficient you are as an Axis player but he may have been able to save some industry or at least disrupt your timetable.

At the time of the first move of your opening I gave what I thought was very modest advice based on the information at hand. Having just played Larry myself and wanting to help out I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Wow he is close to a very big pocket. One more railine and you wont be able to save anyone near the marsh. Rather bold move on his part his baggage train is rather long and unprotected.

Its only a bold move if you never seen it before. This is not the first time I have done this move or moves.

My flanks are fine at this point on turn 4. The pocket is closed on turn 5 and my flanks are just fine.

Also I read a few posts about how Larry should have pulled out more troops ect, but you have to remember:

1. Larry on turn 3 is tring to defend 5 lanes of attack all armored spearheads, one is all gimp mech units Rum, Huns and a few gimp german units, but they are fast an can move through a break though just fine.
2. Larry had to ship out allot of factories ect or lose them, Kiev after 2 turns is in trouble. After 3 turns Leningrad is in truoble. This is not counting the other smaller cities which there is no way he will be able to save anything.
3. Larry is tring to train units to the front because after turn 3 its oh crap I need to defend the land bridge/Keiv/Leningrad and the Bog flanks.
4. On turn 3 Larry is saying OHH crap the bog is looks like a giant trap an needs to train out units.

So basicly the SHC has a huge mess on their hands, do they pull factories which require allot of rail/ rush troops to the front to keep pockets open/pull troops out of pockets. They can't do all three while.

Its not that simple.

I have allot of pressure on the SHC at this point(turn 3) and I never plan to let up until I have achieved all my goals, then I will dig in an refit and be fully rdy for winter.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Honestly, it is a waste to spend CP's on the air force at this point, so don't. The front line is way too fluid for air bases in many sectors of the front and the Luftwaffe will have just a slightly harder time chewing through your new planes over the old ones.

If he ever gets that pocket cut off, all those hexes that don't have a unit in them (or next to a unit) will convert to German control, making it extremely difficult for them to withdraw to the east.

Those panzers have absolutely got to be tired after full out movement like that. I have never seen a encirclement like that. Interesting that he should try it. Need to get forces on the outside and shove your way through his narrow corridor to try to cut them off.

Good move on his part with the Slovakian motorized unit. At some point, you need to cut some of that crap off and make him pay the price for it or he is just going to keep running like crazy on you.

If you check how many tanks I have at turn one to turn whatever Larry has posted my tank numbers don't drop. I lose just about what is being replased. When I stop to fuel up for one turn I refit also. The attack value never really drops of much from turn 1 to turn 7.

I am lossing trucks allot of trucks, but nothing that can't be made up by the summer of 1942.

During 1941 the SHC can't shove their way through a paper bag.

Ketza not picking on u or anything. All good questions and thoughts.

Thanks for posting.

Panama as far as the partisans goes I don't care until about September or even the cut off troops. They are not really an issue that can't be taken care of with garrisons of Italians and Rummanians.