1.04.10 Fulkerson vs KLilly

[larryfulkerson]

Kevin and I are re-starting since the new 1.04.10 patch beta is out now. Kevin is still the Axis and I'm going to be the Soviets again.
Still. Anyway, here's the front lines before I get to move anything.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the turn 1 Soviet air losses.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Soviet units Kevin destroyed on turn 1 :

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the OOB as it is at the beginning of the Soviet turn 1 phase:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the front lines after the Soviet stuff is moved. There were no Soviet turn combats.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the turn 2 front lines before any Soviet moves:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the early turn 2 OOB:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Soviet stuff that was destroyed by start of turn 2:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the production figures for early turn 2:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the front lines before any Soviet stuff is moved:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the turn 3 OOB:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the turn 3 production figures:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Soviet units destroyed as of turn 3:

[JKLilly]

Hello all:

I am playing the Axis side. Per my agreement with Larry, I am not looking at any of Larry's posts until they are five days or more old.

Larry and I have played twice before, once each WITE and FITE. Larry is a conservative, detailed player. I'm a good fit for OKH, as I am like Der Fuhrer, impulsive, prone to gamble, and ultimately foolish. But I have a great time.

I played my first turn and I cannot for the life of me figure out how some of you people take Riga, get all the way to the Rumanian border etc. on turn 1. I settled for almost getting there. Did reasonably well with my first air strikes by setting the mission threshhold down to 10%.

In this game Larry is playing the checkerboard defense, especially up North, and it makes it extremely hard to reach the approaches to Leningrad quickly. I have encircled a fair number of divisions, roughly 20 per turn for the first three turns. Now I'm approaching the historical decision points, which objective to go for? Last time I took Moscow and held it through the winter, which was a pretty good achievement, but it won't save the Reich by itself. I need to do more, but how?

By the way, as many have noted, Larry is a great pbem opponent, reliable and gracious. We're having a great time.

[Aussiematto]

ORIGINAL: jklilly

I played my first turn and I cannot for the life of me figure out how some of you people take Riga, get all the way to the Rumanian border etc. on turn 1. I settled for almost getting there. Did reasonably well with my first air strikes by setting the mission threshhold down to 10%.

Hey there, as a firm believer in what I call the Black Sea Holiday option for AGS, here is a short guide to how I get a Pz division down to the Rumanian border. There are other ways too, and probably better openings. This one is just designed to get ONE unit down there and cut off the western soviet army and activate the Rumanians. Of course, the pocket to the west will only hold if you do a whole lot of other things including using the southern corps from 2nd Pz Army. There's a lot of variations -- others do them better than me.

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Preliminaries: open the line.

Clear out all the defenders north of and including Ivanichi (51,79) up to the stronger infantry west of Kovel using your preferred method and with a plan about where you will pocket the Kovel forces (if you wish to).

The rough terrain with good inf division at (52, 80) should be taken down; I have now added this to my offensive plan but it's only 90% necessary - I think it adds 1 MP to the armoured units because of the slightly shorter move path. You need a unit FIRST in 53, 80 to guide the retreat south, not east (important!). Two divisions of IV corps, perhaps 3 if you feel worried, can be in Ivanichi and then deliberate assault. You can follow up with 1-2 divisions and take out the fort region to the south west and the remnants of the infantry divison.

Finally make sure there are no units blocking the shortest move path from the front line and the armoured division in (58,82). Sometimes you need to use infantry here to push everything back. Should be easy hasty attacks using, usually, the 1st Pz Army infantry unit.

Going on Holiday to Rumanina.

First, take 16th Pz Division (the rearmost active division on Turn 1). It should reach (57,81) with, I think, 16 MP. Assess the strength of the armoured division. In 99% of cases it will be strong. attach support units directly to 16th Pz. 3 of them. If this unit doesn't go, the whole plan falls apart. Move the HQ close - 1-2 hexes behind 16th Pz. Don't worry if it feels unsafe, you will be able to move it to safety before the end of your turn. Deliberate assault the armoured Div in 58,82. It should retreat, almost certainly never routs. Advance into the hex. hasty assault it to push it back, or rout it. STOP.

Second, take 13th pz Division and move it to (58,83). Attach pioneers. Move its HQ in behind it. hasty attack the infantry and cavalry north of Tarnapol, there's a line of three from the cav in Kremenets (59,83) southwest. Keep hasty attacking until they are routed. Your progress is probably (58,83) then (59,84) then (58,85) but depends on where the units retreat to. eventually there's nothing left except routed units. then STOP. Probably have around 10 MP left.

Third, take 11th pz division and move it very carefully to end up in (61,94). There is a specific move path you have to take to get to 61,94 with 2 MP remaining (1 will do, but if you've done it right you will have 2). basically move the unit through the hole its Panzer buddies made to (58,84) first. This will displace the HQ there, too. Then move through Tarnapol to (60,92) using clear hexes...try to hug to the west, since your movement will 'turn' sov hexes into German. From there, you can jump the Dnestr at (60,93) and then hasty attack the Security regiment. it sometimes shows an alarmingly high CV (100+). Don't worry. It's border troops and retreats everytime. No need for support.

Now, there's a few other tricks and stuff to what happens next, but I they give away a bit too much intel . If you move those three units, exactly like that, you will definitely isolate everything to the west, blow the railway lines, activate the cheery Rumanians and it's up to you what happens next

Matt

ADDED -- after you've done this, your units which opened the road to Rumania will have MP remaining. YOu have to carefully work out where to move them to support whatever else you are doing. Personally I try to keep them safe and sound up north and don't get cute trying to push them south where they get cut off too easily.

[larryfulkerson]

Thanks for that step by step walk-through,  I was wondering myself.

[Peltonx]

Hi JKlilly,

If you don't take Riga on the first turn and cross the Pskov River the 2nd turn your probably not going to get Leningrad. Its close to impossible for the reds to stop you from doing this because so few units can be moved around the first turn for them. Also you need 1 more Mech inf Div in North, some times I throw in a Brig also. Taking a sinlge Div from the center will not effect the power of the center north thrust at all, but will greatly increase your chances in the north.

Your center attacks look ok.

Your southern thrust is a disaster. I generally pull 1 panzer and 2 mech inf divs from the center south army. Again is will not effect the thrust at all. Also if you play it right there is nothing the Reds can do to stop you for 2 turns.

The best way to understand how to play the GHC is take and play vs YOURSELF. I took a week and played the first 6 turns over and over was I able to better understand how to expliot a break though, how very limited the SHC is. Also Recon-recon recon, I will spend 15 mins reconing the front. Thats after I let the AI do it first. I have a really good understanding of what I want to do and what the enemy can do to stop me.

I am not sure what Larry has posted as far as how our game is going, but at times I am sure I look totally exposed on my flanks, after having played myself. I understand how limited the Reds are at cutting into my flanks. As long as I cut a path 5 hexs wide there is nothing they can do in 41 to close the gap in 1 turn, by the secound turn I have infantry holding the flanks and the tanks keep rolling. After 3 or 4 turns of pushs forward I will be forsed to stop to let infantry catch up, but my tanks are fueling up.

Also once you make a pocket dont waste one secound wiping them out, let junk units do the job. Keep pushing East once you put another 20 hexs between them an their front lines they will die whenever you feel like killing them. they are 100% usless. Kinda like a cat playing with a mouse.

Also use the supply build up allot, stagger the build ups if possible. This way you will alway have some tanks pushing every turn.

1. You have to take Leningrad. I send every newly arrive Inf div to north. This is very doable if you do good the first 4 turns. Its yours and the only question is how long before you take it. There are 2 paths to taking it. Take whichever one they give you.
2. In the center you probably have to swing south to close the marsh off. the main goal in the center is to drive for Moscow. You will only be able to take it IF the SHC pulls to many troops to the south or north. It is really a side show, but you can still cut off allot of troops in this area.
3. The south is key, I send every newly arrived mech unit to south. Allot of poeple think the Hun and Rum mech divs are junk, but they can run though any hole and cut off units as good as any German mech div. You have to play the first 5 turns nearly perfect, but if you do the reds are in for some uber losses of units and citys.

If you play the first 6 turns well on all 3 fronts which is very doable the next 10 to 12 turns will be a blast.

I am still waiting to play vs someone in the winter of 1941.

Pelton

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the turn 4 front lines before any Soviet stuff is moved:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the OOB from turn 4:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's turn 4 Soviet production so far: