Leon Degrelle
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Leon Degrelle
Has anyone read his book about the eastern front?I know he was an unrepentant nazi but like Rudel you can't discount his bravery and fighting elan.
My favorite excerpt is his story of when they had been in position for a fairly long length of time and the bucket of the well they were using came loose and fell into the well.
So the got a hook and instead of pulling up the bucket the pulled up a rotting russian corpse,his matter of fact statement"We'd been drinking him for weeks"brings into stark contrast what life was like back then.A good read have read it 3 times.
Interestingly Hitler stated that if he was to have a son he would like him to be like Degrelle!
My favorite excerpt is his story of when they had been in position for a fairly long length of time and the bucket of the well they were using came loose and fell into the well.
So the got a hook and instead of pulling up the bucket the pulled up a rotting russian corpse,his matter of fact statement"We'd been drinking him for weeks"brings into stark contrast what life was like back then.A good read have read it 3 times.
Interestingly Hitler stated that if he was to have a son he would like him to be like Degrelle!
RE: Leon Degrelle
I have to ask,do's anyone know who he was???
RE: Leon Degrelle
Yes, he was a Walloon SS Officer and the founder of Rexism.
But why are you posting this....?
But why are you posting this....?
Paradox Interactive Forum Refugee
RE: Leon Degrelle
Because he fought on the ef and have read of other comments about books written about combat on the ef on this forum so i mention one that i consider out of the mainstream apparently so "EXCUSE MEEEEEEEE" have you read his book that's what I asked??
RE: Leon Degrelle
No because his bias prevents it from approaching fact.
Paradox Interactive Forum Refugee
RE: Leon Degrelle
I do know about him. A particularly nasty piece of work. I would not read his book if you paid me.
RE: Leon Degrelle
So his acounts are nasty an to be ignored and neither of you have read his book INTERESTING I like a disscussuion with an ignorant person sorry but since you havt'nt read the aformentioned volume your lacking in source material.
and responce puzzlies me .
and responce puzzlies me .
RE: Leon Degrelle
I have the book, read about only 50% but what I have read I found interesting. I know a few who read all of the book who thought it was worth reading just not a great book on the subject overall...
RE: Leon Degrelle
I just find it interestinglly that some someone can critic it and not have'nt read it ?it puzzles me .
RE: Leon Degrelle
ORIGINAL: barkorn45
I just find it interestinglly that some someone can critic it and not have'nt read it ?it puzzles me .
I have found that due to the subject matter some can't seem to view it all in a historical perspective and get all caught up in the PC of it all... So sad...
Some of the best books I've ever read some would likely find the content offensive, however who cares as long as you enjoy it!
Some really good historical accounts on the various branch's of the SS out there, one was called IIRC "SS Intelligence" or something like that about the whole spy, counter spy stuff, was a great book and well documented.
Read on!
Lrfss
RE: Leon Degrelle
ORIGINAL: barkorn45
I just find it interestinglly that some someone can critic it and not have'nt read it ?it puzzles me .
I am not criticising the book because I would not want to buy it in case by doing so I might enrich the estate of his family, or worse that of a dubious publisher enriching themselves by publishing books written by such dreadful people as Degrelle . I am criticising the man, which you can do by reading about him, not what he wrote.
RE: Leon Degrelle
I don't need to read Hitler's terrible prose in Mein Kampf to know what he believed. The same goes for Degrelle. I think their actions were sufficient.
@ LRFSS
I don't have problems with the book because it might contain "offensive" content (whatever that means). I question the actual truthfulness of the writing because it is apparent that Degrelle was a fanatical fascist and spent the rest of his post war life trying to deny the Holocaust and legitimize the Third Reich. Anyone who tries to deny the Holocaust loses instant credibility in my book and therefore I put his memoirs in the category of fiction, the fanciful stuff of legend.
Many officers and soldiers who fought for the Axis have written legitimate memoirs of their experiences. Leon Degrelle is not one of them.
@ LRFSS
I don't have problems with the book because it might contain "offensive" content (whatever that means). I question the actual truthfulness of the writing because it is apparent that Degrelle was a fanatical fascist and spent the rest of his post war life trying to deny the Holocaust and legitimize the Third Reich. Anyone who tries to deny the Holocaust loses instant credibility in my book and therefore I put his memoirs in the category of fiction, the fanciful stuff of legend.
Many officers and soldiers who fought for the Axis have written legitimate memoirs of their experiences. Leon Degrelle is not one of them.
Paradox Interactive Forum Refugee
RE: Leon Degrelle
ORIGINAL: barkorn45
Interestingly Hitler stated that if he was to have a son he would like him to be like Degrelle!
So Degrelle claimed he said.
Anyone who tells the Pope that Auschwitz's use as an extermination camp was a fraud, and;
Repeated negationist statements on the Holocaust.
His only regret about the war was that they lost.
Can't possibly write anything that could be considered unbiased or, to me, worth reading.
It's a shame Belgium never got to carry out the death sentence they imposed.
Watched a documentary on beavers. Best dam documentary I've ever seen.
RE: Leon Degrelle
yeah.... How about we talk about gaming again
RE: Leon Degrelle
Regarding the Rudel book, if you are into the airwar, I really recommend the excellent books by Pierre Clostermann and Heinz Knoke.
And nope, none of them were nazis
And nope, none of them were nazis
RE: Leon Degrelle
Problem is, there's not a single history book that isn't biased. Every book is written from one perspective or another and, irrespective of any outright invention, gives weight to some information at the expense of other information. History books are replete with "received wisdom" which goes unchallenged by authors because they find no reason to question it. Misinformation and lies are repeated until often they become the bedrock of society's understanding of history. "But everybody knows that's what happened," we are told. Our society differs from others by degree, and the degree changes with time.
Personally I'm heartened that people find Degrelle repugnant and agree it's a shame he wasn't executed. But that doesn't invalidate his book. Even if its primarily fiction- I don't know- it is an historical record of a way of thinking which was produced by historical interests and circumstances. Like Mein Kampf, Churchill's memoirs and every other book for that matter, it needs to be read critically.
Personally I'm heartened that people find Degrelle repugnant and agree it's a shame he wasn't executed. But that doesn't invalidate his book. Even if its primarily fiction- I don't know- it is an historical record of a way of thinking which was produced by historical interests and circumstances. Like Mein Kampf, Churchill's memoirs and every other book for that matter, it needs to be read critically.
“Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man.”
-Leon Trotsky
-Leon Trotsky
RE: Leon Degrelle
Always good to see Hitler's Mein Kampf and Churchill's memoirs in the same sentence - good grief [8|]
Now Maitland, now's your time!
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
RE: Leon Degrelle
There's not so much between them, really. One led an empire trying in vain to fight off challenges to its global hegemony, the other led an aspiring economy making its second challenge. Both were ruthless representatives of their respective nation's ruling class.
In the mid 1930s Churchill really couldn't tell whether Hitler was good for "Germany" or not. Doubtless, what this really meant, was he couldn't see whether Hitler's pursuit of German industry's interests would greatly cut across those of Britain's industries. He had doubtless read Mein Kampf, in which Hitler expressly ruled out building a navy and challenging Britain's colonial empire.
Written in November 1935, and published in "Great Contemporaries" he said "[History] is replete with examples of men who have risen to power by employing stern, grim, and even frightful methods but who, nevertheless, when their life is revealed as a whole, have been regarded as great figures whose lives have enriched the story of mankind. So may it be with Hitler."
Only someone who recognised a kindred spirit and who shared the same social aims, albeit for the benefit of a rival nation- the repression of the working class- could have written this of Hitler at the time. Compare Leon Trotsky's analysis of Hitler and National Socialism in "What is National Socialism", written exactly two years previously
"The more impotent the police regime of the Nazi is in the field of national economy, the more it is forced to transfer its efforts to the field of foreign policy. This corresponds fully to the inner dynamics of German capitalism, aggressive through and through. The sudden turn of the Nazi leaders to peaceful declarations could deceive only utter simpletons. What other method remains at Hitler’s disposal to transfer the responsibility for internal distresses to external enemies and to accumulate under the press of the dictatorship the explosive force of nationalism? This part of the program, outlined openly even prior to the Nazis” assumption of power, is now being fulfilled with iron logic before the eyes of the world. The date of the new European catastrophe will be determined by the time necessary for the arming of Germany. It is not a question of months, but neither is it a question of decades. It will be but a few years before Europe is again plunged into a war, unless Hitler is forestalled in time by the inner forces of Germany."
In the mid 1930s Churchill really couldn't tell whether Hitler was good for "Germany" or not. Doubtless, what this really meant, was he couldn't see whether Hitler's pursuit of German industry's interests would greatly cut across those of Britain's industries. He had doubtless read Mein Kampf, in which Hitler expressly ruled out building a navy and challenging Britain's colonial empire.
Written in November 1935, and published in "Great Contemporaries" he said "[History] is replete with examples of men who have risen to power by employing stern, grim, and even frightful methods but who, nevertheless, when their life is revealed as a whole, have been regarded as great figures whose lives have enriched the story of mankind. So may it be with Hitler."
Only someone who recognised a kindred spirit and who shared the same social aims, albeit for the benefit of a rival nation- the repression of the working class- could have written this of Hitler at the time. Compare Leon Trotsky's analysis of Hitler and National Socialism in "What is National Socialism", written exactly two years previously
"The more impotent the police regime of the Nazi is in the field of national economy, the more it is forced to transfer its efforts to the field of foreign policy. This corresponds fully to the inner dynamics of German capitalism, aggressive through and through. The sudden turn of the Nazi leaders to peaceful declarations could deceive only utter simpletons. What other method remains at Hitler’s disposal to transfer the responsibility for internal distresses to external enemies and to accumulate under the press of the dictatorship the explosive force of nationalism? This part of the program, outlined openly even prior to the Nazis” assumption of power, is now being fulfilled with iron logic before the eyes of the world. The date of the new European catastrophe will be determined by the time necessary for the arming of Germany. It is not a question of months, but neither is it a question of decades. It will be but a few years before Europe is again plunged into a war, unless Hitler is forestalled in time by the inner forces of Germany."
“Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man.”
-Leon Trotsky
-Leon Trotsky
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RE: Leon Degrelle
I don't wish to fall out with my new opponent but this is bizarre and absurdly insulting to the man who, more than any other, means we can play this game in peace, and to the previous generation to mine.ORIGINAL: Mehring
There's not so much between them, really. One led an empire trying in vain to fight off challenges to its global hegemony, the other led an aspiring economy making its second challenge. Both were ruthless representatives of their respective nation's ruling class.
Enough politics for 1 thread
web exchange
Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi
Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?
Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi
Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?
RE: Leon Degrelle
Warspite1ORIGINAL: Mehring
There's not so much between them, really.
How mind numbingly stupid, and spectacularly ungrateful too. Just to be clear you are saying there is not much difference between Adolf Hitler and Winston S Churchill?
Thanks to Churchill you are free to spout such nonsense, but I am also free to ignore. Green button for you.
Now Maitland, now's your time!
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815