Crimea? We don't need no schtinkin' Crimea!

[bdtj1815]

For £70. Why?

[Wild]

ORIGINAL: bdtj1815

For £70. Why?

Are you really that naive?

[jomni]

Is this turning into one of those pricing rants?

[76mm]

I hate to change the topic, but on the subject of Crimea--it is really irritating, and unrealistic, that once the railine is cut east of Crimea, you cannot use the rail within the Crimea. This makes it much more difficult than it should be to move troops via Kerch.

[larryfulkerson]

Maybe that's to simulate that the railcars and engines got stuck on the east side of the cut and there's none available in the west side?  Probably unrealistic to think that. 

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Maybe that's to simulate that the railcars and engines got stuck on the east side of the cut and there's none available in the west side?  Probably unrealistic to think that. 

Yeah, not very likely that very single locomotive and piece of rolling stock would be stuck in the east. Moreover, the Russians could presumably figure out how to ship a couple of locomotives into Sevastopol, Kerch, or one of the other ports in the Crimea.

[Aussiematto]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

You know what "bwheatley", you can quit your highjacking of my thread. Start your own whine-athon somewhere else.

Amen.

Now, back to the point:

I don't think you can ignore the Crimea in early 1941, because otherwise you surrender the initiative down there to the Russians. The trick is to ensure that the Russian can't tell what your intentions are. I've now played two games where the Russian defences on the lower Dnepr were strong enough that I was worried about diverting infantry to crack it -- therefore I've gone around the back, via D and Z towns, and am going to lever those swampy defenders south of Nikolaev out of position. problem is, I've basically shown my opponents I won't get the Crimea.

I think Rostov AND a bridgehead over the Don to the south is strategically more important in the long run, because in 1942-43 you are going to need to attack down into the Caucasus if you are serious about pushing for an Axis victory. Against almost any decent human opponent, you will never get across at Kerch, so probably yes, Crimea is for screening (just be ready to dash for it if your opponent reads your move).

historical point: (game history). In the old War in Europe (cardboard game), it was generally agreed that the Germans should get into and clear the Crimea no problems. What then occured, at the start of the 1942 offensive, was a very gamey move to crack the attack on Kerch. As Axis, you found your three most powerful offensive units (I think from memory 3 SS pz or Pzg units) to get the highest possible attack value and crossed your fingers and rolled the dice. There was, I think, no chance of getting a successful result unless you used these units and even if you did, it was not guaranteed. I never bothered trying... SS Pz units attacking across a strait? I don't think so.

[goranw]

Hi!
Crimea was important to the Germans also from other points than military.
1918 statistics showed 60 000 German inhabitants in Crimea.
In 1918 2/3 of farming area was owned by Germans. The farmings were very developed.The German hospital in Simferopol was widespread famous .
Soviet statistics from 1926 showed 43 600 Germans. Gradually down to 14000- 1940 after long persecution.
In aug. 1941 all Germans were deported to mostly the Caucasus area.
(source- Krim Research Website)
GoranW

[Panama]

The Soviets actually did make some strategic bombing strikes using their obsolete four engine bombers. Kind of a Doolittle Tokyo raid thing. Just enough to get the German's attention in your face thing. Don't know if they did any from Crimea but up north they did.

Can you imagine flying one of those big lumbering things in the dark over the Baltic to bomb Konigsberg? Ouch.

This: On 11 August and 13 August 1941, Zveno-SPB successfully damaged the King Carol I Bridge over Danube in Romania.[10] Zveno operations ended in the fall of 1942 due to high vulnerability of the motherships. (they carried I-16 fighters. also could carry and drop recce tanks)

Sorry if this was already mentioned. I didn't care to go through all the moaning and crying and defensive replies about who was right and who was wrong and what was broken. It's a program. I'm sure a lot was broken on release. That's why there are patches. Gamers tend to do things programmers can't even imagine. [;)]

[Panama]

ORIGINAL: randallw

You think it's easy to simulate history, to the point of no one complaining?  You demand too much.

Can't possibly recreate history with a turn based game. Just can't be done.

[Panama]

ORIGINAL: bdtj1815

Why if a computer game is purchased at considerable cost is a "house rule" needed as mentioned many times in this thread? In my current pbem game, very graciously, my SU opponent is playing with a very restrictive "house rule" during "The Blizzard", are there any other recommended "house rules"

In the day of cardboard and paper our most strenuously enforced houserule was no liquids on the game table. Especially after the Great Tea Flood of 1941. [;)]

[Mynok]

That and no kitties in the game room. [8D]

[PeeDeeAitch]

Or nephews...

[Mynok]

That's more difficult...they'll whine to momma about it.......[:D]

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: Panama

ORIGINAL: bdtj1815

Why if a computer game is purchased at considerable cost is a "house rule" needed as mentioned many times in this thread? In my current pbem game, very graciously, my SU opponent is playing with a very restrictive "house rule" during "The Blizzard", are there any other recommended "house rules"

In the day of cardboard and paper our most strenuously enforced houserule was no liquids on the game table. Especially after the Great Tea Flood of 1941. [;)]

And turn off the fan when bringing in a table. The Great Hurricane of 1983 ruined a game of Gleam of Bayonets.

[delatbabel]

ORIGINAL: Mynok
That and no kitties in the game room. [8D]

My cat once ate the entire supply line of a German army about to take Kirovograd.

[Mynok]

Put my Victory Games Civil War mapboard on the stairwell railing back in the day when I wasn't playing with it. Cat decided it was something she could walk on. Board, counters, and cat all disappeared like Wyle E. going over a cliff. We were finding counters in odd corners for months.

[anarchyintheuk]

Great game, wish it could have been ported somehow.

[Mynok]

Agreed. Several of those Victory Games were very good, but would have been hard to computerize for PBEM due to the impluse nature of them. Vietnam is one I still have that I wish I could play.