Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

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Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by Redmarkus5 »

Placeholder to be taken over by the nominated STAVKA commander.
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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by cpt flam »

I think it could be helpfull if Stavka send the turn to all his subordinates as soon as it get it
this will leave us some time to prepare request or advise during his own planning
not wanting to desobey from the beginning but to observe [&o]
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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by Q-Ball »

STAVKA ORDERS #1: June 22, 1941

COMRADE GENERALS!


The Axis opening is interesting, though I personally think it could have been a bit stronger.

STANDING ORDERS: Comrade Stalin and I expect an active defense. This will mean counterattacks on Panzer spearheads where appropriate. Even if several are failures, we need to grind down those spearheads. Fuel used defending our attacks will limit their mobility. It might take several attacks to wear the unit down to force it to retreat, but we MUST let the Axis know we won't be sitting on our hands. No Comrade Robinskys here!

A few other principals:
1. "TARBABY": If you have the units, we want a ZOC on EVERY enemy Panzer unit, preferably mutliple ZOCs. (when I say "Panzer", I mean Mot Divs too) This forces the Panzer units to start their turns making attacks, just to start moving. Sure, these units are in danger of encirclement, but we can afford that at this point.
2. "D-D-C-C": Repeat after me: D-D-C-C. This stands for the following:
*DEPTH: Don't stack units. It is more important to create multiple rows of units, or a whole carpet. This is DEPTH. The only time we stack is when we MUST defend something, like the Neva river line.
*DIG: The Red Army's best weapon in 1941 is the SHOVEL. Plan ahead, and Dig, Dig, Dig. Did I mention Dig?
*CHECKERBOARD or CARPET: If you have enough units, roll out the RED CARPET; 2-3 deep in units. If you don't CHECKERBOARD to slow them down; Checkerboard is about putting a line of ZOCs up, if you don't have a line of units. They at least have to attack to clear the way.
*COUNTERATTACK: We must be attacking exposed Panzer spearheads. We can't let them think this won't happen. If we are succesful a few times, their pockets will get more conservative.



That's the principals of D-D-C-C

FORTIFIED ZONES:
Please disband these if they are in danger of enemy attack. They have negligible combat value, and just give away manpower. Their only purpose is to DIG; you can leave them if the Germans are far. At this point, do not create any.


SUPPORT UNITS:
With the changes in ARMAMENT USE, I think we need to NOT build any Artillery Units for awhile to see how it goes. We will probably expend all the points we have just rounding out new formations. I plan to build the following units only:
1. RR CONSTRUCTION BDES: This will help us DIG. We want at least 1 for every Army. I assigned 8 this turn from STAVKA, one to each Front at least (2 to Leningrad). I built 12 more this turn.
2. SAPPER REGTS: We will build some of these. They have OK Combat Value, and will help Dig. We will need them this Winter anyway to knock down Fascist Forts

That's it, we might need to build a few Artillery Units to round out new Armies, but we have to be very careful on that.

CORPS HQs: Feel free to slowly disband these, as they clutter the map, hog trucks, and keep bad leaders in play. We can't do that all at once though. But DO NOT attach any new units to Corps; attack them to Army HQs, since that's where they are ending up anyway.


INITIAL ORDERS TO FRONTS:

BALTIC:

The Axis failed to Take Riga, which is interesting. That SS unit, BTW, I would surround with those isolated units. They will die anyway, but that will force the SS unit to attack them to "get them off it's back".

Please take control of the Mech Corps south of Pskov. There are also 4 Entrained units south of Leningrad; these are yours. Please move as you see fit, but make sure they are off the train at the end of your turn! We need to save Train Cap next turn for moving factories. I moved them on the train toward you. I unloaded a single Division on the "Leningrad Backdoor" over the Neva. Go ahead and reassign the HQ, but I would leave it there to DIG.

Otherwise, you have to checkerboard a bit before they approach Pskov and the Narva, which is probably your first line of defense.

WESTERN: The Axis left ALOT of units around Minsk! I suppose they are saving ammo and fuel, but they should have taken them out.

Put a body on the Panzers, and otherwise delay the best you can. There are some frozen reserves around Vitebsk that you'll get to defend the landbridge there.

I have no idea what those SS units are doing in the Pripet marshes. Not much you can do there except hope some of those units Rally so you can RR them out of there.

The Bialystok Pocket is not breakable.

SOUTHWEST FRONT:

That is an interesting opening! I hadn't though of that, forming a mini-Lvov pocket with the 1st Panzer Group troops. I still prefer the "Big Pocket".

I don't think you have enough MPs to take out one of those Panzer Regts via attack. If you put a ZOC or two, though, on every Regt, he'll have trouble getting started next turn. It will take awhile to consolidate those Regts into Divs again, losing valuable time. By splitting them up, he slowed himself down. This is another reason i don't like that opening.

Getting everyone around Stanislav out to safety is obvious. You have Rail Capacity available if you need it. You also might need to rail-out that Tank Div NW of Rovno, it's a bit exposed, but your call.

I think though that the "Baby Lvov" pocket is toast.



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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by Encircled »

Very polite for a STAVKA representative!

Good to see its underway[:)]
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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by buchand »

Axis ECM delayed obviously delayed your message re the SS unit before i compelted my orders this morning[:(] Units have be offloaded from trains and issued shovels and picks! Any views on the 'right hook' given the change in swamp effects?
Plan? What plan? Attack!!
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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by Q-Ball »

ORIGINAL: buchand

Axis ECM delayed obviously delayed your message re the SS unit before i compelted my orders this morning[:(] Units have be offloaded from trains and issued shovels and picks! Any views on the 'right hook' given the change in swamp effects?

No worries, your move was actually better; feel free to post a screenshot, but Panzer Group 4s spearheads are isolated. They failed to take Riga, and a line of unbroken ZOCs stretches all the way to the Baltic. I'm sure they will reestablish contact and wipe out all our units in Lithuania, but the result is a disastrous delay for them. Bad!

Tarhunnas is working on the center, but they are 4 hexes short of Minsk, with 8 divisions around Minsk that are not routed. We can form a line and checkboard right up against the Panzers. Again, they are all doomed, but this will force them to attack just to get freedom of movement. There is no way they reach the Dnepr next turn, and probably wont' threaten a crossing until turn 5 at the earliest.
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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by Q-Ball »

STAVKA ORDERS, TURN 2:

COMRADES!

The Fascist bespoilers of our Motherland continue their advance, though I detect weaknesses in their advance.

General Orders:

Remember the principles of D-D-C-C, which everyone practiced this turn! Good job! Depth-Dig-Checkerboard-Counterattack.

INDUSTRY: We evacuated the Industry at Mogilev, and the Armaments from Gomel. The new rules make an appreciable impact on RAIL CAPACITY, as these moves left very little for troop movement. I fear we will be rail-capacity challenged for awhile.

We will receive many division "Shells" deep in russia as reinforcements. I plan to use Rail Cap to move those closer to the front, as they are very "cheap" before they fill out with replacements. In this way, we will try to conserve capacity.

RESERVE ARMIES: The following Armies are now RELEASED to each Front Command. Do with them as you wish, including changing the higher HQ:

NORTH: 22nd Army, incl. 51, 62 Rifle Corps, 21st Mech. One of those Corps covers Vitebsk, please make sure you cover the northern approaches to Vitebsk.
WEST: 20th Army, incl. 61,20 Rifle Corps, and 7th Mech Corps. These are all around Smolensk and south of there. The 7th Mech Corps is near Moscow.
SOUTH: 19th Army around Cherkassy; you might want to keep them in reserve and digging along the Dnepr, though.
Also, take the 21st Mech Corps West of Cherkassy

STAVKA RESERVES:
There is a rifle Corps near Gomel in Stavka Reserve, we will release next turn
I have a reserve army West of Moscow; that is probably going to WEST front, but we'll determine next turn.

With the lack of Rail Capacity, I will probably have to form Reserve Armies behind each front, rather than dispactch from Moscow.

Please move all Air Units attached to your front commands.

Please also note I will beging to grad NKVD Regts for the Finnish Border area; these units are ideal for a "cheap" defense.

ASSESSMENT:
NORTH:
The two Panzer Divisions near Pskov should be cut-off. They can be easily, I tried it. In fact, you can cut those Mot Divs too, using an Infantry Div NE of Riga, and another east of Riga. They have been VERY sloppy up there. You also have alot of units that lived, bring the rest to safety.

The STAVKA troops near Leningrad are all yours; just leave that unit digging along the Neva.

CENTER:
I can't beleive Minsk isn't surrounded. What a disaster for them! You can use the swamps and Rivers north of Minsk to buy time. Try to get all those units out of the Pripet Marshes if you can. I would disband the CORPS HQs there if you can. You're in great shape.

SOUTH:
I think our opponent here is more skilled. I don't think we can isolate that Panzer Thrust toward Vinnitsa, though he didn't pocket anything. Those Mobile units NW of Rovno are probably toast, though, and he did pocket the Mountain formations along the Carpathians. Obviously, you need to pull as many units out of Stanislav bulge that you can, though I think we'll lose the westernmost ones. That's not bad overall, though.

Make sure you leave units at the Crimean chokepoints to dig.
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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by Tarhunnas »

Any special instructions for the airborne brigades? Do we try to save them for conversion to guards later on (or maybe even drops, I saw some interesting uses for them in your AAR, Q-ball, but that feels almost like cheating). Or do they die for the rodina like everyone else?

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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by Q-Ball »

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

Any special instructions for the airborne brigades? Do we try to save them for conversion to guards later on (or maybe even drops, I saw some interesting uses for them in your AAR, Q-ball, but that feels almost like cheating). Or do they die for the rodina like everyone else?

Pavlov

Good question!

Please try and save the AIRBORNE BDES; not sure I like those RR drops, but at a minimum, they can be converted to Guards Divisions. So, 6 of them eventually will give us a Guards Rifle Corps. That's useful. They don't have a ton of combat value otherwise.

You can use them close to the front, like in a 2nd or 3rd line, but try not to put them somewhere they will get cut-off.

I would also like to Preserve CAVALRY. Try not to get too many cut-off.

If need to sacrifice a unit, sacrifice a TANK DIVISION. They convert to Brigades anyway, and we don't have enough tanks to round out all the divisions. I used to think they were great, but they actually suck; never enough MPs to move then attack.
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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by buchand »

constructions around Leningrad commenced. I'm assuming they will at some point do the 'right thing' and move towards VL and Novgorod and/or try a deep drive on Leningrad. By moving so slowly [North and Centre] they are probably confusing us [perhaps thsi is there cunning plan :)]
Plan? What plan? Attack!!
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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by Tarhunnas »

ORIGINAL: buchand

constructions around Leningrad commenced. I'm assuming they will at some point do the 'right thing' and move towards VL and Novgorod and/or try a deep drive on Leningrad. By moving so slowly [North and Centre] they are probably confusing us [perhaps thsi is there cunning plan :)]

Yes, I was also worrying about them being up to something sneaky, because they are moving so slow in the north and center. But I can't really think of anything smarter to do for the German than attack east att full speed. Any sign they've transferred mobile units south?
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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by cookie monster »

What you wanna do is place a unit on all axis mobile troops to drive up their fatigue/attrition..

then check them off against a list to see if any have been transferred

then you can spot which front they are pushing in

But you guys will probably spot a Panzer division out of place, cos the names are familiar to you by now
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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by buchand »

We should of course be talking about all the problems we are facing in the north and centre to maximise reinforcements[8D] Difficult when I can't even spot the Schwerpunkt yet.
Love the axss moves down south though [only because I'm up north] will want to have a look at those for my own use!
Plan? What plan? Attack!!
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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by BletchleyGeek »

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas
Any special instructions for the airborne brigades? Do we try to save them for conversion to guards later on (or maybe even drops, I saw some interesting uses for them in your AAR, Q-ball, but that feels almost like cheating). Or do they die for the rodina like everyone else?
Please try and save the AIRBORNE BDES; not sure I like those RR drops, but at a minimum, they can be converted to Guards Divisions. So, 6 of them eventually will give us a Guards Rifle Corps. That's useful. They don't have a ton of combat value otherwise.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. This kind of suicide paradrop are useful for messing your opponents' nerves, something with a very limited utility.
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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by Q-Ball »

STAVKA ORDERS, TURN 3:

COMRADES!

The Fascist Bespoilers of our Sacred Motherland are advancing.

Morale is still a problem at the front; if it does not improve, please work with your political kommisar to shoot counter-revolutionary elements in our troops until morale improves!

Comrade Tarhunnas is away from the front for the weekend on a ski trip, so I am assuming personal command of the Western Front!

General Situation:
STAVKA RESERVES:
I committed 2 Reserve Armies this turn, both to the Western Front, which was really short of troops. I have 2 more Reserve Armies assembling near Moscow; they should be ready next turn for deployment. Let's see where they are needed. It might be the SOUTH.


NORTH:
The Pskov line is just about breached, which isn't bad for Turn 3. Those Panzers, though, are likely short on fuel, so I would attempt to resist for another turn, and put a body on the units that crossed the river. They are probably VERY low on gas. Trust me!

Dave, you need to start setting up some defenses on the Luga River south of Leningrad. Use the swamps and river to set-up a Chceckerboard. Don't to a linear defense, because the purpose is only to delay. Make sure you use UNREADY troops around Leningrad to dig; don't send to the front.

Any reinforcements that appear in Leningrad are yours, please use immediately. (Mostly PM divisions and Naval Bdes)

You have alot of organizational work to do on command structure, please use up to 30MPs for this purpose (or wait until next turn)

ALL: Your UNREADY units will become READY alot quicker by setting to REFIT. Nearly all our units NOT on the front should be set to REFIT. All STAVKA reserves are set to REFIT.

WESTERN FRONT: Progress is slow here for the Fascists; they are still a few hexes short of the Dnepr.

I made alot of changes here, mostly pulling in reserves, and setting-up a defense line on the Dnepr (NOTE: Major rivers is one place that you do want a LINEAR defense line.) That line will be much stronger next turn, with a few forts dug, and moving everyone up to the river. This should slow them down for awhile. I also committed a Reserve army to the Landbridge. I disbanded a few CORPS units, and moved in a couple Army HQs. Next turn, we need to organize this front a bit.

I also started pulling units out of the Pripet. There is a handful remaining to provide a retreat route for any units that end up there, but that's it. I Railroaded out all the armor in there, not a place for tanks! This turn we have some RR capacity, which I used for that (as well as moving factories of course).

Southern Front:

You have a problem; there are about a dozen divisions east of Rovno that, although they are not yet isolated, will eventually be cut-off. Some of the infantry at the top can escape into the swamp eventually, but all the mobile forces are toast. That's unfortunate. There are a few things you can do though to make this a real pain for them:

1. Make sure you allow that routed RIFLE unit to ROUT; it will probably teleport out of there!
2. Move several tank units south toward Proskurov; that will cause supply problems! It will also FORCE them to attack those units next turn, in order to avoid you making contact with your troops to the east.
3. In general, move pocketed units EAST, oozing through the Germans. Make that pocket LARGER, it makes it harder for them to maneuver

Further south, you managed to save most of the units from Stanislav. If you can't save those last Mountain Divisions, that's OK; I didn't think you could anyway. That Romanian Tank Division there is VERY vulnerable, if you would like to smash it. Should be easy.
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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by Tarhunnas »

I am back now, with a new and sound grasp of ski tactics!

As I surmised, being away for a turn and letting STAVKA run things is apparently a much better way of getting reserves your direction than pestering STAVKA with messages about inadequate forces...[;)]
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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by buchand »

As Corps will survive for 2 turns if lucky then organistionally guess we move to an army structure and disband corp HQs?
Told you I was new at SU[8|]
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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by Q-Ball »

Turn 4, STAVKA ORDERS:

COMRADES!

Our glorious leader Comrade Stalin has seen fit to grant us many reinforcements. We shall use these to crush the Fascists, and bring revolutionary glory to the Motherland!

OVERALL: OK, we received piles of "Shell" units this turn, basically units that need replacements and refit.

I moved many of these via rail, because they are "Cheap" to move right now, and don't cost rail capacity. I sent everyone a few "Shell" units; please keep them out of harm's way for awhile until they take replacements and build a little experience.

You will notice there are a number of new units along the southern Dnepr digging in; they may as well DIG while they train. Same up around Leningrad; those types are units are ideal to DIG, while you move better ones to the front.

Please take over the follwing units under your command:

NORTH: Any STAVKA units west of the Vokhov. Please leave the NKVD units along the SVIR alone; we will use them to create an anti-finnish wall there.
CENTER: Take command of any STAVKA units near your front. Next turn, you'll get another Reserve Army.
SOUTH: Take Command of 31st Army near Kiev, and 7th Rifle Corps near Kirovgrad. 31st Army is a brand-new "Reserve" army; we will be creating MORE of these!!!!

NORTHERN FRONT:
The 3 mobile units east of Pskov can be easily cut-off. Please do so. They won't stay that way of course, but this will interrupt his fuel deliveries. I don't know why he continues to allow his Panzers to be cut-off like that, but whatever. It's their Germanic Funeral Pyre.

Otherwise, you have alot of C-in-C work to do. The 23rd Army HQ is finally free, and you have 2 more STAVKA ones to use. Start forming ARMIES. Please spend some APs to do so, though alot of your units are STAVKA ones and should be free. But you have alot of command work to do.

Don't forget to withdraw the Finnish front. I took the liberty of evacuating Hanko for you; there is no reason to stay there.

CENTER: I had to double-check, because at first I thought they hadn't moved. They are STILL 4 hexes short of the Dnepr, with nothing but air on the West bank. Obviously that fighting around Minsk seriously delayed them.

I would form a linear line on the Dnepr; move everyone up to the bank. This is the ONE time you can form a linear line; on a Major River, and you should do so. We are already at Lvl-1 trenches along the bank, and by the time they are ready, we should be lvl 2-3, with 2-deep stacks. They will have to go around.

Keep defending the landbridge, very important.

SOUTH:
That is a good pocket they formed; hats off. Can't be broken. Some other things you can do:

1. Make sure your lines have depth, and are not too linear. It is better to be 2-3 deep, than guard every hex across the front.
2. I sent that Reserve Army to help cover some losses
3. That MOTORIZED DIVISION can easily be hit; please make it retreat.
4. If you like a couple Romanian units (That Cav unit, the 35th Reserve Div) are also easy counterattacks. Hit them.

Look for other opportunities, he is sticking his neck out a bit.

I think the SOUTH has our best opposing player at this stage.
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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by buchand »

Can't see any ahistorical allocation of Panzers? The 'speed' of advance is almost worrying, the panzers should be at the gates of leningrad, instead they are west of a gap in defences because everthing went north! Just as well they are isolated again. C&C also went as I scrambled to get away from the lightning thrusts towards the birthplace of the revolution.
I'm assuming that I'm 'responsible' for VL and north, that OK with Bradley adn Fredrick?
Plan? What plan? Attack!!
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RE: Za Rodinu Soviet AAR (No Axis)

Post by Q-Ball »

Turn 5: STAVKA ORDERS:

COMRADES!

OVERALL:

The Axis advance is strongest in the South. Up north, they are doing so-so, and in AGC...not really sure WHAT they are doing, but crossing the Dnepr doesn't seem to be on the list at the moment.

Anyway, fewer units appeared, but we are moving more divisions to the front.

The ARMAMENT pool is empty; it was a good call NOT to build any artillery units. Please keep NOT doing that. We'll have to build it next year. We need all the ARM points to flesh-out divisions. Manpower is not a problem at the moment.

NORTH: They have moved beyond Pskov, and are approaching Leningrad. On the bright side, you should have the last units unfrozen shortly, and we have sent reinforcements your way. Take command of any STAVKA units in your area.

Standing Order: Stack the Neva 3-deep with some of your best troops, when they get closer. Make sure there are size-4 forts all along that front. But you MUST 3-deep the Neva with good units, even if that means collapse elsewhere. The other must-hold is the Volkhov line.

CENTER: They are clearly attempting to circle around all the troops on the Dnepr and on the landbridge.

Pz Gp 3 is approaching Vitebsk from the North. I have sent a Reserve Army, the 30th, to this area. It is HQ'ed to Moscow M.D.; I would not move any more under Western Front, it's already very overloaded. Moscow M.D. can hold additional armies.

Pz Gp 2 is approaching Gomel, and will attempt a crossing here next turn. I would pull units and stack them up against the River here. They'll likely get across next turn, but if you can limit that to one hex, you can prevent a real breakout until Turn 7 or 8. That would be a good thing.

To coutner these 2 thrusts, you can probably thin-out the Landbridge and Dnepr line up there, because they don't appear to be threatening those areas.

SOUTH:
BIG pocket formed this turn, and I don't think it can be broken.

I would move everyone to the eastern part of the pocket, because on the western end are units that can liquidate our guys, but on the eastern end only Panzers; they will live another day.

I think your defenses are too linear down there, and lack depth. Checkerboard a bit more.

31st Army near Kiev is at your disposal; you need more reinforcements to replace the units destroyed, more coming your way.
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