ORIGINAL: abulbulian
ORIGINAL: MengJiao
ORIGINAL: kirkgregerson
I'll get you some when I get home to books. Off hand if you read a bit about the final stages of the failed spr 42 Kharkov offensive, you should see some examples of this. There were many other examples of the is 42.
Look specifically for the 1st Panzer Army counterattacks around mid-May 42!
One of the issues in WitE is that the mechanics of carrying out a large scale offensive in early 42 was still very problematic for the soviets. Don't see any of that modeled in WitE. My human vs human game in Spr-Sum42 made this very apparent. Have you read many books that focus on 42 campaigns on the east? You'll see many examples of these issue with C&C for soviets. Operations Mars, Jupiter, and the offensive in the Kerch Peninsula. Just to name a few.
Little Saturn and Star and Gallop and Uranus just to name some Russian offensives in 1942 that went very well.
Little Saturn and Star and Gallop and Uranus just to name some Russian offensives in 1942 that went very well.
LOL, please MengJiao... why are you attempting to take things out of context again? I find that rude. Please let me look at Kirk's original post was dealing with early 42 sov operations?
Part of my issues is that large scale operations carried out by the sov in early 42 were always a disaster.
How did you miss that? How can anybody now trust anything you post regarding what you're READ as it's seems your reading comprehension is a bit challenged.
Just for others to know:
========================
Saturn: Dec 42 - Feb 43
Star: BEGAN in Feb 43
Gallop: Jan 29, 43 - Mar 6, 43
Uranus: prep'd about Sept, ran late Nov
So MengJiao, are these operations that you'd consider as early 42? If so, please explain. I know about all of these and have ready books about each. So if you have any questions, let me know.
Please understand I'm not trying to pick on MengJiao. It's just another example where people have tried to post information without understanding the thread just to counter what the author has posted without facts or context.
Well arguably an example for not completely unsuccessful Soviet offensives in summer 1942 would be the Rzev Op by Konjev’s Kalinin (30. and 29 army) and Zhukov’s Western Front (31. army) in July and Aug. 1942. They mauled the German 9th army (then Vietinghoff) and overrun German 161th I.D. on the first try. The crisis only could be managed by Heersgruppen reserves and by minimizing the then unsuccessful German OP Wirbelwind towards Uljanov (Aug. 1942).
In the North, Soviet ops against the German Slisselburg Corridor, blocking Leningrad, by Volkov and Leningrad Front, 8th Army, 4th Guard Rifle Corps, 2nd Shock Army) in Aug. Sept. 1942, against Urick towards Oranienbaum and against the Demiansk corridor (July and Aug. 1942) could only be stopped by using German reserves and forces, planned for minor German offensives (OP Nordlicht, the assault against Leningrad, OP Moorbrand against Pogost’e and OP Schlingpflanze for widening the Demjansk corridor).
Thus, some Soviet offensives in summer 1942 at least managed to hinder sucessful German minor offensives. Arguably, in 1942 in the Centre and in the North, where Russian strength was pitted against German weakness, existed an operational equilibrum.
Source: Das Deutsche Reich und der 2. Weltkrieg, Vol. 6, pp. 898-910.