Warning: leader changes
- abulbulian
- Posts: 1101
- Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:42 pm
Warning: leader changes
Guess I missed this in the rules, but when I dismissed a leader for another manually bad things happened.
The assigned leader lost 1-2 in a few categories and the dismissed leader lost a point too!
Ok, WTF. I can maybe understand the dismissed leader losing some moral. But why did the assigned leader lost points? Bug or as designed for who knows why??
GRRRRRRRR! As if the leader situation is not bad enough for axis. Turn 6 and have had 5 leaders dismissed automatically (2 group leaders and AGC Von Bock!), also a few more dead (this we know is bug being fixed). Lol, oh please tell me a patch release is otw.
The assigned leader lost 1-2 in a few categories and the dismissed leader lost a point too!
Ok, WTF. I can maybe understand the dismissed leader losing some moral. But why did the assigned leader lost points? Bug or as designed for who knows why??
GRRRRRRRR! As if the leader situation is not bad enough for axis. Turn 6 and have had 5 leaders dismissed automatically (2 group leaders and AGC Von Bock!), also a few more dead (this we know is bug being fixed). Lol, oh please tell me a patch release is otw.
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- CarnageINC
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RE: Warning: leader changes
I believe your putting in a lower ranking general in a higher ranking position, such as a Lt. Gen in a position for a regular general, ie army level and such. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
- abulbulian
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RE: Warning: leader changes
oh, well maybe that's in rules and I missed it. Would have been nice to have got a warning from UI before allowed to change. Oh well.
But still I'm very disappoint in logic for leader dismissal. How on turn #3 does Von Bock get dismissed? I was making decent ground and yeah some loses in battles (not entirely my fault that swamp is UBER defense). Very silly that one lone Sec Bat (fort 0) in Swamp can hold out against low Fat, high exp, high moral German Inf Div deliberate attack. IMO, just shouldn't be happening in July 1941 like that.
Either way, the logic for leader dismissals is FUBAR IMO and I hope is getting fixed. Maybe have some geographical goals for AG leaders rather than just wins/loses.
Turn #3 ...[:(]
But still I'm very disappoint in logic for leader dismissal. How on turn #3 does Von Bock get dismissed? I was making decent ground and yeah some loses in battles (not entirely my fault that swamp is UBER defense). Very silly that one lone Sec Bat (fort 0) in Swamp can hold out against low Fat, high exp, high moral German Inf Div deliberate attack. IMO, just shouldn't be happening in July 1941 like that.
Either way, the logic for leader dismissals is FUBAR IMO and I hope is getting fixed. Maybe have some geographical goals for AG leaders rather than just wins/loses.
Turn #3 ...[:(]
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"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2
"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu
RE: Warning: leader changes
I'm not sure if this case involved a promotion. If so, that might explain it too. The manual says that promotion sometimes (not always) decreases the stats of a leader. The rationale is that a leader might be adept with a lower-level command, but might not be quite so good with a larger set of responsibilities. Other games model this too.
- abulbulian
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RE: Warning: leader changes
ORIGINAL: CarnageINC
I believe your putting in a lower ranking general in a higher ranking position, such as a Lt. Gen in a position for a regular general, ie army level and such. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Well I assigned him as a corps leader, nothing lower than that so what was I suppose to assign him to?? Please tell me. Can't assign leaders to div. So in that case, it bogus because no matter what I assign him to he'll lose points??
Unless he was higher rank and I put him to a lower position.. which again makes no sense to lose trait points. Just wrong any way you look at it.[&:]
- Beta Tester WitE and ATG
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2
"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2
"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu
RE: Warning: leader changes
Would it be possible to put into a patch an option to stop auto replacement of generals? I would like the ability myself, but I would not want the computer to replace my generals. I don't understand the logic in all of this.
RE: Warning: leader changes
ORIGINAL: joey
Would it be possible to put into a patch an option to stop auto replacement of generals? I would like the ability myself, but I would not want the computer to replace my generals. I don't understand the logic in all of this.
The logic seems clear enough.
We as plyers are in the position of the german high command on the eastern front(OKH).
But there is a higher command(OKW) that is not represented on the map, that has the ability to change leaders as well. Also Hitler loved changing generals.
- abulbulian
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RE: Warning: leader changes
ORIGINAL: Wild
ORIGINAL: joey
Would it be possible to put into a patch an option to stop auto replacement of generals? I would like the ability myself, but I would not want the computer to replace my generals. I don't understand the logic in all of this.
The logic seems clear enough.
We as plyers are in the position of the german high command on the eastern front(OKH).
But there is a higher command(OKW) that is not represented on the map, that has the ability to change leaders as well. Also Hitler loved changing generals.
You kidding me?
No, I don't think you understand that this is a game that the players want to have control over these important choices. We can take a poll but you'll find the same as what happened in WitP. Players wanted more control over production in that example and finally got it.
But my initial post is about a flaw in logic that I think needs attention. Hoping to hear from a tester or developer soon on this topic.
- Beta Tester WitE and ATG
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2
"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2
"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu
RE: Warning: leader changes
I believe there is a post somewhere in the tech forum that says it has to be random as leaders have to be assigned when they die, and they can die on the other players turn..
and if you dont like it, you can always change him for somebody else, hence you have all the control you need
“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great
- Joel Billings
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RE: Warning: leader changes
In the next patch there will be no German dismissals until 12/15/41.
If you choose a replacement leader that must be promoted to be put in the position, he can lose ratings as it is assumed he may not be quite ready for the position. You'll see a P in the line for the leader indicating he must be promoted (it also costs more admin points, IIRC).
If you choose a replacement leader that must be promoted to be put in the position, he can lose ratings as it is assumed he may not be quite ready for the position. You'll see a P in the line for the leader indicating he must be promoted (it also costs more admin points, IIRC).
All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard
-- Soren Kierkegaard
- CarnageINC
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RE: Warning: leader changes
ORIGINAL: abulbulian
ORIGINAL: CarnageINC
I believe your putting in a lower ranking general in a higher ranking position, such as a Lt. Gen in a position for a regular general, ie army level and such. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Well I assigned him as a corps leader, nothing lower than that so what was I suppose to assign him to?? Please tell me. Can't assign leaders to div. So in that case, it bogus because no matter what I assign him to he'll lose points??
Unless he was higher rank and I put him to a lower position.. which again makes no sense to lose trait points. Just wrong any way you look at it.[&:]
I notice that when I assigned higher ranking generals to Corps that I didn't suffer from penalites or only in one area if at all. Its just a theory I thought of. I don't recall if I read it somewhere or what. I think leaders in sitting on the sidelines can be promoted so there is an opition of waiting forever and a day but I'm not certain if I'm correct in the matter. [&:]
RE: Warning: leader changes
ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
In the next patch there will be no German dismissals until 12/15/41.
If you choose a replacement leader that must be promoted to be put in the position, he can lose ratings as it is assumed he may not be quite ready for the position. You'll see a P in the line for the leader indicating he must be promoted (it also costs more admin points, IIRC).
Wonderful step forward!
RE: Warning: leader changes
ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
In the next patch there will be no German dismissals until 12/15/41.
If you choose a replacement leader that must be promoted to be put in the position, he can lose ratings as it is assumed he may not be quite ready for the position. You'll see a P in the line for the leader indicating he must be promoted (it also costs more admin points, IIRC).
sexy!
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RE: Warning: leader changes
ORIGINAL: abulbulian
ORIGINAL: Wild
ORIGINAL: joey
Would it be possible to put into a patch an option to stop auto replacement of generals? I would like the ability myself, but I would not want the computer to replace my generals. I don't understand the logic in all of this.
The logic seems clear enough.
We as plyers are in the position of the german high command on the eastern front(OKH).
But there is a higher command(OKW) that is not represented on the map, that has the ability to change leaders as well. Also Hitler loved changing generals.
You kidding me?
No, I don't think you understand that this is a game that the players want to have control over these important choices. We can take a poll but you'll find the same as what happened in WitP. Players wanted more control over production in that example and finally got it.
But my initial post is about a flaw in logic that I think needs attention. Hoping to hear from a tester or developer soon on this topic.
And i don't think you understand history, or the design decision to
put players in the same position of the Eastern command but not in the position of Hitler.
I also think you don't understand politeness very well.
- abulbulian
- Posts: 1101
- Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:42 pm
RE: Warning: leader changes
ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
In the next patch there will be no German dismissals until 12/15/41.
If you choose a replacement leader that must be promoted to be put in the position, he can lose ratings as it is assumed he may not be quite ready for the position. You'll see a P in the line for the leader indicating he must be promoted (it also costs more admin points, IIRC).
This is perfect, I was going to or maybe already did post a suggestion for no dismissals until later in 41. Historically there were a many dismissals by Hitler in early Dec for Generals ordering retreats before the Sov 41 winter counter offensive.
- Beta Tester WitE and ATG
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2
"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2
"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu
- abulbulian
- Posts: 1101
- Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:42 pm
RE: Warning: leader changes
ORIGINAL: Wild
ORIGINAL: abulbulian
ORIGINAL: Wild
The logic seems clear enough.
We as plyers are in the position of the german high command on the eastern front(OKH).
But there is a higher command(OKW) that is not represented on the map, that has the ability to change leaders as well. Also Hitler loved changing generals.
You kidding me?
No, I don't think you understand that this is a game that the players want to have control over these important choices. We can take a poll but you'll find the same as what happened in WitP. Players wanted more control over production in that example and finally got it.
But my initial post is about a flaw in logic that I think needs attention. Hoping to hear from a tester or developer soon on this topic.
And i don't think you understand history, or the design decision to
put players in the same position of the Eastern command but not in the position of Hitler.
I also think you don't understand politeness very well.
I understand the concept of politeness perfectly and would put my knowledge of WWII up against yours any time. But it's my decision to whom I will excise this concept of politeness. Your comment: "The logic seems clear enough." .. I found insulting, thus I don't feel any obligation to treat you with any sort of 'politeness'.
Either way, Joel answer made this post worth it. [:D]
- Beta Tester WitE and ATG
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2
"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2
"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu
RE: Warning: leader changes
Wow, if "The logic seems clear enough." is insulting... I can only imagine how upset you might get if he said something really insulting... Sheesh. This thread is a waste of reading time.
Member since January 2007 (as Gray_Lensman)
Wargaming since 1971 (1st game Avalon Hill's Stalingrad)
Computering since 1977 (TRS-80) (adhoc programming & game modding ever since)
Wargaming since 1971 (1st game Avalon Hill's Stalingrad)
Computering since 1977 (TRS-80) (adhoc programming & game modding ever since)
RE: Warning: leader changes
ORIGINAL: Gandalf
Wow, if "The logic seems clear enough." is insulting... I can only imagine how upset you might get if he said something really insulting... Sheesh. This thread is a waste of reading time.
Ah Gandalf, I have to disagree with that last part because Joel's [&o] comment was well worth reading. Of course I did almost miss it amongst all of the sound and fury [:D]
- abulbulian
- Posts: 1101
- Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:42 pm
RE: Warning: leader changes
ORIGINAL: Gandalf
Wow, if "The logic seems clear enough." is insulting... I can only imagine how upset you might get if he said something really insulting... Sheesh. This thread is a waste of reading time.
Really? A waste of time? It was quite the opposite for me. Did you bother reading Joel post about the new change for dismissals? Maybe you don't care about these types of game mechanics? Also, why did you even bother posting here ? What actually upsets and disappoints me most is when people post replies that server no value to the initial thread. Wild's post was exactly that and now so was yours. He didn't even understand what I was asking. If I asked him why a leader would lose some points in abilities when assigned to a corps HQ, he wouldn't even have an answer. He had no clue what he was talking about. Yeah, that's insulting to us all.
- Beta Tester WitE and ATG
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2
"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2
"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu
RE: Warning: leader changes
ORIGINAL: pompack
ORIGINAL: Gandalf
Wow, if "The logic seems clear enough." is insulting... I can only imagine how upset you might get if he said something really insulting... Sheesh. This thread is a waste of reading time.
Ah Gandalf, I have to disagree with that last part because Joel's [&o] comment was well worth reading. Of course I did almost miss it amongst all of the sound and fury [:D]
My comment about the "...waste of reading time" was due to the extra effort of sorting thru the childish argumentative garbage being posted.
Member since January 2007 (as Gray_Lensman)
Wargaming since 1971 (1st game Avalon Hill's Stalingrad)
Computering since 1977 (TRS-80) (adhoc programming & game modding ever since)
Wargaming since 1971 (1st game Avalon Hill's Stalingrad)
Computering since 1977 (TRS-80) (adhoc programming & game modding ever since)