Influence of OCS games like Case Blue?

[Grotius]

I've been wondering whether the designers of WiTE -- or any of my fellow gamers -- have ever played "Case Blue" or other Operational Combat Series (OCS) boardgames about the Eastern front. Case Blue is 5 miles per hex, down to the battalion level, but it bills itself as "operational" rather than tactical. Other examples include "Baltic Gap" and "Guderian's Blitzkrieg."

Obviously there are substantial differences in style and scope, especially given that WiTE is not a board game; I'm not suggesting in any way that WiTE is derivative of OCS. Indeed, I find it much more playable than the OCS games, which require huge amounts of table space and exclusion of all pets and children from the play area for weeks. As I play WiTE, I keep saying to myself, "At last, an operational game that is playable!" Nonetheless, there are some general similarities in style between the games, so I'm curious whether anyone here (including the designers) have ever played them.

Link to the Case Blue page at Boardgamegeek.com: http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/29285/case-blue

And one shot of the map in action:

[jimkehn]

Mmmmmmm....OCS

[Phatguy]

I love Baltic Gap

[glvaca]

Yup, playing the complete Case Blue game right now. July '42 and we're in a headlong drive for the oil [:)]
Great game, much better then FiTE/SE. Although I like WiTE much more, at least you can play by yourself and during the week through Pbem.
We're already going for about a year real time on the GC game starting in Oct '41! [X(]

[CarnageINC]

THE GAMERS!!!  I love their Standard Combat Series!  There OCS are really good also.  I only have on of the Tactical Combat Series but their all very well made and look fantastic [:)]

[Joel Billings]

Gary and I aren't familiar with those games. We both stopped playing and buying board wargames in the early eighties. When I read the post at first I thought you were referring to OSG (Operational Studies Group) which shows you how long ago I was playing boardgames.

[amatteucci]

Excellent series!
I always liked the possibility to stockpile supply. Think only of the impact of this in artillery barrages and reduction of pockets...

[Crimguy]

Their map is certainly attractive . . .

[Grotius]

And the units are beautifully detailed, too. The games are gorgeous to look at. The rules are intricate but not as bad as, say, Advanced Squad Leader.

Joel, that's interesting that neither you nor Gary have played the OCS games. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised; most wargamers I know also have switched to PC games. I myself stopped playing board games in the 80s, but I resumed the hobby about a decade ago. Board games, and wargames in particular, have not stood still -- there are many fabulous choices now.

Anyway, I'm glad to see there are some other OCS gamers here in the forum, in any case.

[jjdenver]

I'd love to find some gamers in Denver that would play those games. They always looked like lots of fun.

[jimkehn]

THey had some mods for some of these games for like aide de camp and another one I cant remember. You can play the games by email with those aides but man it would still be difficult as they are difficult. But Im just happy with WitE.

[E]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Gary and I aren't familiar with those games.

That brings up a question I've been dying to ask for a couple decades... One can read between the lines with the different versions of The Warp Factor, was the same "method" was employed for the other games?

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

We both stopped playing and buying board wargames in the early eighties.

And yet the board wargaming background is readily apparent in WITE (and greatly appreciated by myself, if no one else! *grin*).

And one other question... when are we going to see version 3 of Computer Ambush?

[Rickuh]

Love OCS. Playtested DAK, Burma, GB2, & CB, and I own all OCS titles.

I think WitE is the best computer "boardgame" ever. [&o]

[Whyalterhistory]

Brings back memories of my days play testing games at Avalon hill in Baltimore. Best time of my life.

[CarnageINC]

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

I'd love to find some gamers in Denver that would play those games. They always looked like lots of fun.

Where were you when I lived there? I could never find anyone who was interested.

[Titanwarrior89]

Loved DAK. I have Case BLue but have not yet played it....Board gaming Twilight Imperium and getting ready to do SPQR once I get the rules down. OCS is a great system.

[Grotius]

The only one I've really played is Tunisia, which is a great intro to the OCS system. Now that I'm playing WiTE, I'm itching to play Case Blue or Baltic Gap, which were given to me for Christmas a year ago.

[BletchleyGeek]

Another big fan of OCS here and proud owner of Burma and Baltic Gap.

I find some striking analogies between OCS and WiTE. For me WiTE is the OCS for computer wargaming. That is: as close as it can get to the real thing.

[Joel Billings]

ORIGINAL: E

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Gary and I aren't familiar with those games.

That brings up a question I've been dying to ask for a couple decades... One can read between the lines with the different versions of The Warp Factor, was the same "method" was employed for the other games?

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

We both stopped playing and buying board wargames in the early eighties.

And yet the board wargaming background is readily apparent in WITE (and greatly appreciated by myself, if no one else! *grin*).

And one other question... when are we going to see version 3 of Computer Ambush?

In the early days of SSI there was some heavy borrowing from board games. In three cases SSI paid royalties to the board game company (Computer Bismarck, Warp Factor and Ringside Seat, IIRC). There were other games that some thought were taken from board games which were not. As long time boardgamers we were heavily influenced by boardgames. Gary was one of the early designers that although influenced by boardgames, was doing things very creatively and at times much different from boardgames (his early reliance on actual numbers of weapons instead of a combat factor was a big part of this). With WitE, we wanted to make a game that old boardgamers would appreciate, but my East Front boardgaming stopped with War in the East and Drang Nach Osten.

[E]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

In the early days of SSI there was some heavy borrowing from board games. In three cases SSI paid royalties to the board game company (Computer Bismarck, Warp Factor and Ringside Seat, IIRC).

The Warp Factor surprises me, as I was under the impression that Paramount sqawked about the shapes of the graphics, which ADB had (and has) a perpetual license to use.

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
There were other games that some thought were taken from board games which were not.

It was easy to assume more were... Fifty Mission Crush versus B-17 Queen of the Skies, Computer Air Combat versus Air Force/Dauntless, Computer Ambush versus Ambush (I still want a version 3 of Computer Ambush that lets me play the Germans in solitaire!!! *grin*), etc.

So, does Gary have a fix for the no stacking limits in the Apple version of Kampfgruppe yet? *grin* (seriously, I'd like to have that one, as it was incorporated in Battlegroup...)