Scen 2

[Mundy]

No joy on the searches...

I know that the Japanese get a bit more to play with in Scenario 2.

Are there any differences in the Allied OOB in this one? I'm assuming no, but want to be sure.

I'm starting my first PBEM, so I'm already over-analyzing everything.

M-

[Canoerebel]

No differences in the Allied OOB.

Differences in the Japanese OOB are extensive and were recently listed in a War Room thread started by Q-Ball and titled something like "Scenario Two vs. Scenario One." The last post in that thread probably was less than a month ago, so it should be easy to find.

[Canoerebel]

Here's the link to the thread, which is currently on page two in the War Room:

tm.asp?m=2602047

[Mundy]

Yeah, I've come across a couple of threads regarding the Japanese OOB.  Lots of the littler stuff.
 
I just wanted to know if there was anything I should look for from the Allied side.
 
Thanks, Canoerebel.
 
M-

[Canoerebel]

Look for trouble. Based upon my two Scenario Two PBEM games (one finished in mid 1945 and the other is currently in July '42) vs. experienced opponents, the air war is a Japanese player's nocturnal emission.

[Mundy]

The biggest thing that comes to mind after turn 1 (historical), was than Rangoon had the living snot bombed out of it.  The 4 or 5 times I've started Scen 1, I can't recall a Dec 7 raid there.
 
Once I get turn 2, I can see what's left.  Midway got raked over the coals too by some DDs.
 
M-

[Canoerebel]

Sounds like you're playing vs. the AI? If so, that should help you immensely in the air war. I doubt the AI will be 1/50th as effective in pilot training as an experienced PBEM opponent would be.

[Mundy]

Nope.  This is PBEM, with historical Dec 7. (so I guess it is against the AI for one turn [:D])
 
M-

[Canoerebel]

Ah, I see.

Scenario Two is a blast, but commit this to memory: "Scenario Two is not the actual war....Scenario Two is not hte actual war...Scenario Two is not the actual war."

Based upon what I've seen to date, the Japanese are the equals of the Allies in the air and on the ground into 1945. It's only at sea that the Allies vastly outnumber Japan. So you can't fight the war on anything like real terms (unless your opponent isn't experienced).

Good luck!

[findmeifyoucan]

I am actually MUNDY'S opponent and I have to disagree. The US production machine was ten times that of Japan and probably 40x by mid war plus their pilot base and training was huge by comparison. There is no way Japan can keep up with the US on the casualties of war. Add to that the fact that only 40% of the Us total production was allocated towards the War against japan. Scen 2 just gives Japan better preparedness against the Allies and more organzed allocation of resources. For example much more HI allocation towards air pilot training which was grossly under estimated by the Japan High Command. The starting forces are the same the difference is Japn gets a boost to start the war. If Japan can keep her casualties down she has a chance otherwise the end result will be the same. Lol

[mike scholl 1]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Ah, I see.

Scenario Two is a blast, but commit this to memory: "Scenario Two is not the actual war....Scenario Two is not hte actual war...Scenario Two is not the actual war."

Based upon what I've seen to date, the Japanese are the equals of the Allies in the air and on the ground into 1945. It's only at sea that the Allies vastly outnumber Japan. So you can't fight the war on anything like real terms (unless your opponent isn't experienced).

Good luck!

While you can make some sort of case for most of the "improvements" in scenario two, one is complete fantasy. The Japanese had laid hands on every ounce of oil the could get historically..., there was no place they could have aquired any more without going to war. The four additional divisions all being "Guards" formations is also a bit much to swallow.... [8|]

[crsutton]

Basically, I am doing now in 5/43 what I normally expected to be doing 9/42. Expect Japanese control of the air until you start to get major production boosts in mid 1943. Like Canoerebel says, throw every conception about Allied power vs Japanese out the window. Greater resources also allow rapid advances in production new plane types and ships. You will see more Japanese carriers earlier than you would expect. It is a fun campaign to play, but insane.....

[Q-Ball]

The Allies have an airpower disadvantage until about the last quarter of 1942; then it starts to equalize, and tip in favor of the Allies by 4/43 or so. I don't think it takes until 1944.

IIRC from my game with Cuttlefish, you first get large numbers of 4Es starting in 9/42. This is decisive; starting right then, the Allies are better able to shut down airfields than the Empire is. That is one equalizer. The Japanese are still superior in fighters at this stage.

The Allies can't assert tactical air control effectively until the appearance of better fighters, i.e. the F6F Hellcat for the Navy, and P-47 for the Army, not to mention the appearance of P-38s in numbers. This all happens in early 1943. If you train your pilots effectively (and there is no reason not to with all the units available on the West Coast), you should be able to sweep any bases with P-38, and bomb it to bits with all your 4E. In return, the P-47 will shoot-up any Japanese attempt to shut down your airbases, as IJA bombers are flimsy. The P40K is a fighter that also appears in late 1942; it's not great, but can stand toe to toe with Zero/Tojo, and you get it in numbers, unlike the P-40E.

The other weapon is all the engineering units you get; with those on the ground, shutting down an Allied airbase in 1943 is just about impossible for Japan. The Allies can easily shut down Japanese ones. Thus, Allies win the air war.

Now, if your plan is to ATTRITE the Japanese until they run out of planes, get a new plan. Won't work. This is a difference vs. RL for sure.

In terms of GROUND TROOPS, the IJA is stronger in Scen 2 for sure, but even in Scen 1, the IJA can easily have more Divisions available than the Allies with Kwantung buys, at least 15 unrestricted ones in stock, plus alot of SNLF units. That doesn't mean much though if you don't control the seas around those troops, or the air above them.