LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
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- SoliInvictus202
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:24 pm
- Location: Austria
LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
I'd like your oppinion on my current PBEM game - cause it'S really frustrating me and I don't see any way to change it...thanks for your interest and your answers in advance
following situation - I'm playing the Japanese:
I have captured Kendari (AF 4) and Makassar (AF 3):
-Makassar has 1 squadron of 29 Zeroes
-Kendari has 4 Squadrons of Zeroes: 1 with 44, 1 with 12, 2 with 9 (and 2 Bomber squadrons, yet the airfield has no * - so it's not overstacked)
both airfields have plenty of supplies, runways have zero damage, and have plenty of Aviation support as well.....KEndari even has an Airflotilla of which all the units stationed there are a part of
PLAN was to first attack Koepang and then Denpassar with AmphibTFs supported by SCTFs - all protected by LRCap...
I have completely shut down my CAP for a while to make sure that my pilots were rested and that enough planes were ready....
what happened?:
both amphib TFs get chewed up totally by Wildebeests protected by Buffaloes or worse - and not a single Zero was ever in the air to protect it....
what did I do?:
I set the planes on LRCap - some up to 80 %, one even up to 100% on the last day - and gave them a specific TF as a target....
the weather was on the 4 days in question: 2 days of light overcast and 2 days of clear sky....(forecast was better, here the reality)
not a single plane ever made a LRCap over ANY TF.....
not one
results were pretty devastating with most of the AKs and APs sunk and 2 BBs dented..once or more times...
this is consistent with the problem I had from the beginning of this PBEM (much different in my game as Allies and in my games against the AI) - my planes never seem to take off - even if the targets are well within torpedo range - and the weather has clear skies....the bombers stay on the field (always checked aggression of commanders and range/height - etc....)
and a week ago the 44-Zero unit was tasked to sweep Koepang from Kendari - didn't take off for 4 days in a row....then I set it to escort with target "Koepang" as I wanted to attack it with bombers, without the prior sweeps, and what happened?....the bombers took off - got chewed up- and the fighters did nothing....
I believe it's pretty obvious that I'm more than a little frustrated - but what am I doing wrong here? - it can't be mere randomness - cause for 4 days not LRCap out of around 100 planes - and all the other incidents where the planes stayed on the ground - it's simply not plausible anylonger....I could list a whole lot more of these situations....but that's not the point....
I know I'm only a beginner - but I had my movements double checked by someone who's been playing this game for a long time -and he agreed with everything I did...and still it doesn't seem to work at all.....
thanks for your help and suggestions
PS: had all of these ship losses happened with 5 zeroes over my TFs - I would not complain at all - even if it had been 1 out of 100 - I'd have stayed silent...but like this????
following situation - I'm playing the Japanese:
I have captured Kendari (AF 4) and Makassar (AF 3):
-Makassar has 1 squadron of 29 Zeroes
-Kendari has 4 Squadrons of Zeroes: 1 with 44, 1 with 12, 2 with 9 (and 2 Bomber squadrons, yet the airfield has no * - so it's not overstacked)
both airfields have plenty of supplies, runways have zero damage, and have plenty of Aviation support as well.....KEndari even has an Airflotilla of which all the units stationed there are a part of
PLAN was to first attack Koepang and then Denpassar with AmphibTFs supported by SCTFs - all protected by LRCap...
I have completely shut down my CAP for a while to make sure that my pilots were rested and that enough planes were ready....
what happened?:
both amphib TFs get chewed up totally by Wildebeests protected by Buffaloes or worse - and not a single Zero was ever in the air to protect it....
what did I do?:
I set the planes on LRCap - some up to 80 %, one even up to 100% on the last day - and gave them a specific TF as a target....
the weather was on the 4 days in question: 2 days of light overcast and 2 days of clear sky....(forecast was better, here the reality)
not a single plane ever made a LRCap over ANY TF.....
not one
results were pretty devastating with most of the AKs and APs sunk and 2 BBs dented..once or more times...
this is consistent with the problem I had from the beginning of this PBEM (much different in my game as Allies and in my games against the AI) - my planes never seem to take off - even if the targets are well within torpedo range - and the weather has clear skies....the bombers stay on the field (always checked aggression of commanders and range/height - etc....)
and a week ago the 44-Zero unit was tasked to sweep Koepang from Kendari - didn't take off for 4 days in a row....then I set it to escort with target "Koepang" as I wanted to attack it with bombers, without the prior sweeps, and what happened?....the bombers took off - got chewed up- and the fighters did nothing....
I believe it's pretty obvious that I'm more than a little frustrated - but what am I doing wrong here? - it can't be mere randomness - cause for 4 days not LRCap out of around 100 planes - and all the other incidents where the planes stayed on the ground - it's simply not plausible anylonger....I could list a whole lot more of these situations....but that's not the point....
I know I'm only a beginner - but I had my movements double checked by someone who's been playing this game for a long time -and he agreed with everything I did...and still it doesn't seem to work at all.....
thanks for your help and suggestions
PS: had all of these ship losses happened with 5 zeroes over my TFs - I would not complain at all - even if it had been 1 out of 100 - I'd have stayed silent...but like this????
-
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:21 pm
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
If you have surface groups escorting, put a handful of float planes on CAP. Just the fact that they are intercepted will ward off a lot of the hits. And if the weather won't let them fly, then you can't get hit either.
There could be other factors as to why your land based CAP didn't fly though. 2 things come to mind: 1) Supply. Do the bases have enough supply to fly? You say this isn't the cause in this case. 2) Drop tanks turned on? If the TF starts in range of the bases that they don't need drop tanks, then they won't switch to "on" when the ships move out of range. This is a case where you would have to manually set it. Koepang is out of range without drop tanks turned on. So barring bad weather over both bases, I suspect this was your problem.
There could be other factors as to why your land based CAP didn't fly though. 2 things come to mind: 1) Supply. Do the bases have enough supply to fly? You say this isn't the cause in this case. 2) Drop tanks turned on? If the TF starts in range of the bases that they don't need drop tanks, then they won't switch to "on" when the ships move out of range. This is a case where you would have to manually set it. Koepang is out of range without drop tanks turned on. So barring bad weather over both bases, I suspect this was your problem.
- SoliInvictus202
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:24 pm
- Location: Austria
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
thanks for your answer - however my drop tanks were turned on....always when needed - I even calculated the distance the SCTFs would move to make sure that if drop tanks were needed that they were turned on...
weather by all means shouldn't have been a problem - as my opponent's planes took off - but mine didn't...
I didn't sent the FloatPlanes on CAP - no...but seriously? - with 100 planes to do the job for them?
weather by all means shouldn't have been a problem - as my opponent's planes took off - but mine didn't...
I didn't sent the FloatPlanes on CAP - no...but seriously? - with 100 planes to do the job for them?
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Please note that I'm Rolands opponent in this game- and he's indicated it's ok for me to read (and reply I supose) this thread. If you're reading his AAR please don't give away anything he hasn't already said (in this thread).
Cheers,
Daniel.
Cheers,
Daniel.
- SoliInvictus202
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:24 pm
- Location: Austria
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
ORIGINAL: Itdepends
Please note that I'm Rolands opponent in this game- and he's indicated it's ok for me to read (and reply I supose) this thread. If you're reading his AAR please don't give away anything he hasn't already said (in this thread).
Cheers,
Daniel.
haven't updated that for a while, due to time issues.....but thanks
- KenchiSulla
- Posts: 2956
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:19 pm
- Location: the Netherlands
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Check the range of your units... are they set to the range you actually want them to fly out to? I ask this because you seem... to have this problem with all of your units... and I know some people restrict range to 0 when training or providing CAP for a hex
AKA Cannonfodder
"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor
"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
I read here and there a couple times that land based air have a hard time conducting LRCap over ships at sea, and that even if they find their target there are still penalties in how many aircraft will make it to cap.
But I dunno why with that many planes you didn't get any at all to the ships. When I first took Rangoon I had 9 or 10 fighter groups stationed there that I set to LRCap with droptanks and used them to cap incoming freighter taskforces. They never seemed to put as many planes in the air as normal cap would, but they still always had some planes on top of the ships. I set them the same way I set cap, with 40% set to the LRCap (and target set to the TF) and everything else left blank (0%).
I had the base the same command as the planes, plus an air HQ in place of the same command as well. Planes set to 40% LRCap with the TF as target, I might have also set 20% cap, can't remember (but I probably moved in british hurricanes to conduct separate cap). Alt 20K, 0% rest, drop tanks with range set out to 8 or 9 I think, I only protected them as they came between akyab and rangoon.
I remember fatigue was an issue for these guys. But other then that they shot down some small air raids by betties and sallies I think it was. Never more then 10 or 15 per raid. I don't remember how many fighters I got from these 9 25 plane groups, but it was enough to drive off the raids without any ships hit mostly. A couple TF's a week for a month or so before I moved south with my LCU and cleared airbases that were conducting the raids.
But I dunno why with that many planes you didn't get any at all to the ships. When I first took Rangoon I had 9 or 10 fighter groups stationed there that I set to LRCap with droptanks and used them to cap incoming freighter taskforces. They never seemed to put as many planes in the air as normal cap would, but they still always had some planes on top of the ships. I set them the same way I set cap, with 40% set to the LRCap (and target set to the TF) and everything else left blank (0%).
I had the base the same command as the planes, plus an air HQ in place of the same command as well. Planes set to 40% LRCap with the TF as target, I might have also set 20% cap, can't remember (but I probably moved in british hurricanes to conduct separate cap). Alt 20K, 0% rest, drop tanks with range set out to 8 or 9 I think, I only protected them as they came between akyab and rangoon.
I remember fatigue was an issue for these guys. But other then that they shot down some small air raids by betties and sallies I think it was. Never more then 10 or 15 per raid. I don't remember how many fighters I got from these 9 25 plane groups, but it was enough to drive off the raids without any ships hit mostly. A couple TF's a week for a month or so before I moved south with my LCU and cleared airbases that were conducting the raids.
- SoliInvictus202
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:24 pm
- Location: Austria
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder
Check the range of your units... are they set to the range you actually want them to fly out to? I ask this because you seem... to have this problem with all of your units... and I know some people restrict range to 0 when training or providing CAP for a hex
nope....I know Denpassar is at the edge of the range of Zeroes...but well within.....and the TFs were attacked at range of 12 - and I had the Zeroes set for 14 with drop tanks...
as with Koepang the days before...it's even closer and the TFs got chewed up around 6 hexes away from Kendari....again the Zeroes had plenty or "reserve" range...
thanks a lot for your answer though
- SoliInvictus202
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:24 pm
- Location: Austria
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
ORIGINAL: Sredni
I read here and there a couple times that land based air have a hard time conducting LRCap over ships at sea, and that even if they find their target there are still penalties in how many aircraft will make it to cap.
But I dunno why with that many planes you didn't get any at all to the ships. When I first took Rangoon I had 9 or 10 fighter groups stationed there that I set to LRCap with droptanks and used them to cap incoming freighter taskforces. They never seemed to put as many planes in the air as normal cap would, but they still always had some planes on top of the ships. I set them the same way I set cap, with 40% set to the LRCap (and target set to the TF) and everything else left blank (0%).
I had the base the same command as the planes, plus an air HQ in place of the same command as well. Planes set to 40% LRCap with the TF as target, I might have also set 20% cap, can't remember (but I probably moved in british hurricanes to conduct separate cap). Alt 20K, 0% rest, drop tanks with range set out to 8 or 9 I think, I only protected them as they came between akyab and rangoon.
I remember fatigue was an issue for these guys. But other then that they shot down some small air raids by betties and sallies I think it was. Never more then 10 or 15 per raid. I don't remember how many fighters I got from these 9 25 plane groups, but it was enough to drive off the raids without any ships hit mostly. A couple TF's a week for a month or so before I moved south with my LCU and cleared airbases that were conducting the raids.
that's exactly my point - had 5 or even 1 plane been over the targets - I wouldn't have posted - I'd have still lost ships - that's not the problem....the losses are fine - BUT - not the way I suffered them...
if not one plane out of either 100 for the Koepang operation or around 50 for the Denpassar Operation has taken off - then I have a problem....
the Japanese Empire could live with the losses - but if it's just a random thing that happens, and has nothing to do with reality (having been in the army, I know that even Austrian pilots take off on a clear day [8D] - doesn't even have to be elite Japanese) -let's just say I'm a little disappointed....
-
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:21 pm
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
That may be your problem right there then, but I don't know for 100% certain. Zeros have a max range (with tanks) of 14 hexes this is true, but on an escort mission they would time their take-off to arrive on target at the same time as the bombers so minimal waste of fuel. For CAP on the other hand, they need loiter time, and it could very well be that CAP can only go to the "normal" range with tanks (11 hexes). Like I said, can't say for sure, but that is a possibility. Then again, you could have just had crappy weather over the airfields. Check the combat events files to see if raids were canceled from those bases.
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
It's in the manual.ORIGINAL: Sredni
I read here and there a couple times that land based air have a hard time conducting LRCap over ships at sea, and that even if they find their target there are still penalties in how many aircraft will make it to cap.
7.2.1.8
Long Range CAP over TF’s are less effective then normal CAP.
7.1
» Long Range CAP – The air unit’s aircraft will fly combat air patrol over all
friendly units in a hex other than the one containing the air unit’s base.
Long Range CAP will attempt to intercept any enemy planes flying into
the hex containing the Long Range CAP. The amount of fighters protecting
the friendly units at the moment of an enemy airstrike is based on the
range to the hex being protected and the normal radius of the aircraft
flying Long Range CAP. Long Range CAP over Air Combat TF’s is only 20%
as effective as over other units since it’s harder to coordinate with an Air
Combat TF that is constantly changing course and is using radio silence.
- SoliInvictus202
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:24 pm
- Location: Austria
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
ORIGINAL: VSWG
It's in the manual.ORIGINAL: Sredni
I read here and there a couple times that land based air have a hard time conducting LRCap over ships at sea, and that even if they find their target there are still penalties in how many aircraft will make it to cap.
7.2.1.8
Long Range CAP over TF’s are less effective then normal CAP.
7.1
» Long Range CAP – The air unit’s aircraft will fly combat air patrol over all
friendly units in a hex other than the one containing the air unit’s base.
Long Range CAP will attempt to intercept any enemy planes flying into
the hex containing the Long Range CAP. The amount of fighters protecting
the friendly units at the moment of an enemy airstrike is based on the
range to the hex being protected and the normal radius of the aircraft
flying Long Range CAP. Long Range CAP over Air Combat TF’s is only 20%
as effective as over other units since it’s harder to coordinate with an Air
Combat TF that is constantly changing course and is using radio silence.
perfect: so out of 100 planes 20% should have been over the targets.....maybe 80 with change altogether set for LRCap ...so that makes 12+ - and I get none....thanks for quoting the manual...
- SoliInvictus202
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:24 pm
- Location: Austria
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
ORIGINAL: War History
That may be your problem right there then, but I don't know for 100% certain. Zeros have a max range (with tanks) of 14 hexes this is true, but on an escort mission they would time their take-off to arrive on target at the same time as the bombers so minimal waste of fuel. For CAP on the other hand, they need loiter time, and it could very well be that CAP can only go to the "normal" range with tanks (11 hexes). Like I said, can't say for sure, but that is a possibility. Then again, you could have just had crappy weather over the airfields. Check the combat events files to see if raids were canceled from those bases.
yeah...that happened in the week before a lot - all raids cancelled due to bad weather (forecast "light overcast - Dutch planes flew however)
but this week (with the 4 days in question) I never saw these messages.....had I seen them I'd have been bloody annoyed due to the clear skies....but I'd have accepted it
and I can even live with the fighters not coordinating with bombers...that's war (if it doesn't happen always) - but as VSWG generously quoted the manual - some planes should have LRCAPed the TFs....
anyway thanks for all of your answers - it seems the communis opinio is that there is no real reason for it - randomness for over 4 days and on several occasion before is hardly good enough for me....
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
It always rains in Holland- Dutch pilots are used to the rain.
British pilots should also be used to it- but won't fly because the leather in their flight suit stains. That's why they're upgrading to Hurricanes- enclosed cockpits............
British pilots should also be used to it- but won't fly because the leather in their flight suit stains. That's why they're upgrading to Hurricanes- enclosed cockpits............
- SoliInvictus202
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:24 pm
- Location: Austria
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
It always rains in Holland- Dutch pilots are used to the rain.
British pilots should also be used to it- but won't fly because the leather in their flight suit stains. That's why they're upgrading to Hurricanes- enclosed cockpits............
and zeroes are flying with steam engines that apparently don't work in rain and have two slaves on the wings to give them more speed right?
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
I'm not complaining. However I must point out that I most emphatically agree with you on one point.
ORIGINAL: SoliInvictus202
I wouldn't have posted - I'd have still lost ships - that's not the problem....the losses are fine -
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
ORIGINAL: War History
If you have surface groups escorting, put a handful of float planes on CAP. Just the fact that they are intercepted will ward off a lot of the hits. And if the weather won't let them fly, then you can't get hit either.
There could be other factors as to why your land based CAP didn't fly though. 2 things come to mind: 1) Supply. Do the bases have enough supply to fly? You say this isn't the cause in this case. 2) Drop tanks turned on? If the TF starts in range of the bases that they don't need drop tanks, then they won't switch to "on" when the ships move out of range. This is a case where you would have to manually set it. Koepang is out of range without drop tanks turned on. So barring bad weather over both bases, I suspect this was your problem.
Also, the LRCAP should be given the TF as a target.
Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
The 20 % applies to LRCAP'ing air combat TFs. The manual doesn't mention the penalty for all other TFs.ORIGINAL: SoliInvictus202
ORIGINAL: VSWG
It's in the manual.ORIGINAL: Sredni
I read here and there a couple times that land based air have a hard time conducting LRCap over ships at sea, and that even if they find their target there are still penalties in how many aircraft will make it to cap.
7.2.1.8
Long Range CAP over TF’s are less effective then normal CAP.
7.1
» Long Range CAP – The air unit’s aircraft will fly combat air patrol over all
friendly units in a hex other than the one containing the air unit’s base.
Long Range CAP will attempt to intercept any enemy planes flying into
the hex containing the Long Range CAP. The amount of fighters protecting
the friendly units at the moment of an enemy airstrike is based on the
range to the hex being protected and the normal radius of the aircraft
flying Long Range CAP. Long Range CAP over Air Combat TF’s is only 20%
as effective as over other units since it’s harder to coordinate with an Air
Combat TF that is constantly changing course and is using radio silence.
perfect: so out of 100 planes 20% should have been over the targets.....maybe 80 with change altogether set for LRCap ...so that makes 12+ - and I get none....thanks for quoting the manual...
LRCAP for TFs works fine for me. Not sure what is happening. Can you post a screenshot of one of your squadrons set to LRCAP?
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Roland did that- I mentioned it in an email after the first Amphib TF got done over (and it's in his first post of this thread).
Edit- I mean he assigned a TF as the target of the LRCAP
Edit- I mean he assigned a TF as the target of the LRCAP
- SoliInvictus202
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:24 pm
- Location: Austria
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
here the two screens...
first unit is fully ready and should have been flying this turn and 4 days ago as well....
the second unit has been flying LRCap for 4 days now...last turn I set it to 100 (50 before) cause I was getting frustrated and now of course it has much to much fatigue...
I can post all other units as well if you'D like
the unit it was protecting made a high speed run and is thus very close by now....it had been chewed up 2 or 3 days ago - no plane was protecting it as well...
first unit is fully ready and should have been flying this turn and 4 days ago as well....
the second unit has been flying LRCap for 4 days now...last turn I set it to 100 (50 before) cause I was getting frustrated and now of course it has much to much fatigue...
I can post all other units as well if you'D like
the unit it was protecting made a high speed run and is thus very close by now....it had been chewed up 2 or 3 days ago - no plane was protecting it as well...
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