Aircraft Production Choices

[Icedawg]

I'm currently having difficulty deciding which early IJN recon aircraft and IJN night fighters to produce.

For recon, I'm caught between the Irving and Judy. The only advantage the Irving has is base range. However, with drop tanks in use, the two are equals. The Judy only requires one engine and is alot faster. The single engine really has some advantages (smaller impact on airfield stacking limits and less HI to produce), so I am leaning towards producing the Judy and not the Irving. Is this the right choice?

For night fighters, the A6M5d is my current choice. However, the Judy is also available at the same time (6/44), so I am also considering this plane. The A6M5d is superior to the Judy in just about every category (especially armament), so I'm leaning in that direction. However, the A6M5d factory is huge (20) and I just can't seem to justify using such a large factory to produce an aircraft that has only a slight impact on the game (night fighters aren't exactly a game-changer). I'm thinking of going with the Judy and converting the A6M5d factory to something else (probably the Tojo or Frank). Which would you guys produce, the A6M5d or the Judy?

While I'm at it, I have a question about night fighters in general. Can they be used as conventional fighters during the daytime? I ask because the A6M5d is actually superior to the daytime aircraft it is based on (the A6M5b). So, I was thinking of using A6M5d units as regular fighters instead of as night fighters (at least if my need for daytime fighters becomes greater than my need for night fighters). Any thoughts on this?

[Shark7]

The Irving turns into a pretty good night fighter...which should get radar in the end.

Also, the Irving can be used during the day, and it has a higher durability...making it more suited to dealing with the massive B-17, B-24, and B-29 raids that you will eventually face.

[Xxzard]

Hmmm, there are a couple issues here.

Judy---
Pros: Can use extra D4Y engines. Fast. Single engine.
Cons: Lower durability. As nightfighter, single 20mm cannon may not be powerful enough.

Irving---
Pros: More durable. Has Radar in 10/44 model. More heavily armed. Longer Norm. Range.
Cons: Too slow to catch B-29 and some B-17's. Two engines, (Ha-35).

All in all, I think I would go with the Judy as a recon plane, and although the Irving should be a capable bomber destroyer, it is rather slow, and won't catch B-29 raids. So I have to favor the Judy as a night fighter too, despite very low armament. For most recon I would much prefer the Army's Dinah-III.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Xxzard

Hmmm, there are a couple issues here.

Judy---
Pros: Can use extra D4Y engines. Fast. Single engine.
Cons: Lower durability. As nightfighter, single 20mm cannon may not be powerful enough.

Irving---
Pros: More durable. Has Radar in 10/44 model. More heavily armed. Longer Norm. Range.
Cons: Too slow to catch B-29 and some B-17's. Two engines, (Ha-35).

All in all, I think I would go with the Judy as a recon plane, and although the Irving should be a capable bomber destroyer, it is rather slow, and won't catch B-29 raids. So I have to favor the Judy as a night fighter too, despite very low armament. For most recon I would much prefer the Army's Dinah-III.

You shouldn't be having to chase them anyway, and the radar is a big force multiplier. Not going to tell you how to do it, but my own experience is that the Irving is golden late game. I would not increase production, but I wouldn't stop it either.

[Icedawg]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

The Irving turns into a pretty good night fighter...which should get radar in the end.

Also, the Irving can be used during the day, and it has a higher durability...making it more suited to dealing with the massive B-17, B-24, and B-29 raids that you will eventually face.

So, should I just not produce the A6M5d or D4Y2-S at all and just use the Irving? By looking at the basic stats, the early (non-radar equipped) Irving looks pretty pitiful compared to the A6M5d (it is slower, has a poor climb rate and is less powerfully armed). Once the radar comes along in 10/44, then the Irving is the clear choice.

But prior to that date, I am faced with the dilema - produce the Judy night fighter and convert the A6M5d factory to some other type (Tojo's?), or produce the A6M5d's and waste a size 20 factory? Which is the better option?

[Mike Solli]

You're not really "wasting" the factory.  Just turn it on and off as needed.

[rader]

I don't think all your RCN a/c can upgrade to the Judy-C. I could be wrong, but check out the unit potential upgrades first.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: rader

I don't think all your RCN a/c can upgrade to the Judy-C. I could be wrong, but check out the unit potential upgrades first.

Pretty sure that the Recon Irvings that upgrade to NF Irvings will stay Recon without the NF version being produced.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

ORIGINAL: Shark7

The Irving turns into a pretty good night fighter...which should get radar in the end.

Also, the Irving can be used during the day, and it has a higher durability...making it more suited to dealing with the massive B-17, B-24, and B-29 raids that you will eventually face.

So, should I just not produce the A6M5d or D4Y2-S at all and just use the Irving? By looking at the basic stats, the early (non-radar equipped) Irving looks pretty pitiful compared to the A6M5d (it is slower, has a poor climb rate and is less powerfully armed). Once the radar comes along in 10/44, then the Irving is the clear choice.

But prior to that date, I am faced with the dilema - produce the Judy night fighter and convert the A6M5d factory to some other type (Tojo's?), or produce the A6M5d's and waste a size 20 factory? Which is the better option?

Nope, because the A6M5d and D4Y2-S are both single engine and cheaper. Like I said, don't increase or turn off the Irving, and go ahead and produce one or both of the other model types at the rate they historically appeared. Remember Night Fighters do not play that big a role in the game, your expansion is better spent on A7Ms, N1K1s, and Ki-84s.

[Mike Solli]

Shark's got a good point about the night fighters.  If you look at night fighters as a neat little toy that really don't make a difference in the grand scheme of things, you'll be much happier (if you can be happy as the Japanese player in the late game). [;)] [:D]

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Shark's got a good point about the night fighters.  If you look at night fighters as a neat little toy that really don't make a difference in the grand scheme of things, you'll be much happier (if you can be happy as the Japanese player in the late game). [;)] [:D]

It is hard to imagine that in the late game that many Allied players will be bombing much at night anyways. The results just don't justify it considering the overwhelming numbers you can bring. Plus, if you have night fighters then you will be in the position of guessing exactly where you are going to get hit at night. Smart players will rotate the targets. I would not worry too much about Japanese night fighters.

[Xxzard]

Crsutton's point is probably correct. Honestly I haven't played that portion of the game to any serious depth, so I haven't seen the effect of radar versus the effect of armament and so forth. One thing that is rather clear though, is that Japan has a lot of trouble on it's hands just fighting off the daytime raids, so perhaps a nightfighter is not really so necessary.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Shark's got a good point about the night fighters.  If you look at night fighters as a neat little toy that really don't make a difference in the grand scheme of things, you'll be much happier (if you can be happy as the Japanese player in the late game). [;)] [:D]

It is hard to imagine that in the late game that many Allied players will be bombing much at night anyways. The results just don't justify it considering the overwhelming numbers you can bring. Plus, if you have night fighters then you will be in the position of guessing exactly where you are going to get hit at night. Smart players will rotate the targets. I would not worry too much about Japanese night fighters.

Exactly, nice to have and do some damage when they do manage to intercept that very rare night raid, but for the most part, they are just neat toys and you only need enough to fill out the squadrons you will get.

IF the Allied 4Es weren't quite so devastating and hard to shoot down, then night fighters might be more useful, but as it is, even unescorted heavies are hard to bring down during the day.

[Icedawg]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

You're not really "wasting" the factory.  Just turn it on and off as needed.

By "wasting", I meant that it could be converted to produce some more useful aircraft (Tojo's, Frank's etc).

[Icedawg]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

ORIGINAL: Shark7

The Irving turns into a pretty good night fighter...which should get radar in the end.

Also, the Irving can be used during the day, and it has a higher durability...making it more suited to dealing with the massive B-17, B-24, and B-29 raids that you will eventually face.

So, should I just not produce the A6M5d or D4Y2-S at all and just use the Irving? By looking at the basic stats, the early (non-radar equipped) Irving looks pretty pitiful compared to the A6M5d (it is slower, has a poor climb rate and is less powerfully armed). Once the radar comes along in 10/44, then the Irving is the clear choice.

But prior to that date, I am faced with the dilema - produce the Judy night fighter and convert the A6M5d factory to some other type (Tojo's?), or produce the A6M5d's and waste a size 20 factory? Which is the better option?

Nope, because the A6M5d and D4Y2-S are both single engine and cheaper. Like I said, don't increase or turn off the Irving, and go ahead and produce one or both of the other model types at the rate they historically appeared. Remember Night Fighters do not play that big a role in the game, your expansion is better spent on A7Ms, N1K1s, and Ki-84s.

Yeah, this is what I am now leaning toward. That big fat size 20 aircraft factory making A6M5d's should probably be converted to something more useful.

[Icedawg]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Shark's got a good point about the night fighters.  If you look at night fighters as a neat little toy that really don't make a difference in the grand scheme of things, you'll be much happier (if you can be happy as the Japanese player in the late game). [;)] [:D]

It is hard to imagine that in the late game that many Allied players will be bombing much at night anyways. The results just don't justify it considering the overwhelming numbers you can bring. Plus, if you have night fighters then you will be in the position of guessing exactly where you are going to get hit at night. Smart players will rotate the targets. I would not worry too much about Japanese night fighters.

This is a good point. They seem like they would be nice to toy around with, but in the big picture, there are other much more important planes I should be focusing on producing.

Thanks for all of the input guys.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

You're not really "wasting" the factory.  Just turn it on and off as needed.

By "wasting", I meant that it could be converted to produce some more useful aircraft (Tojo's, Frank's etc).

I guess wasting is a poor choice of words. With the ability in AE to increase factories one at a time (instead of the WitP way of doubling factories), I see little reason to convert whole factories, unless you don't plan on ever producing that plane (Ki-36 factory comes to mind as one of those to convert).

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

You're not really "wasting" the factory.  Just turn it on and off as needed.

By "wasting", I meant that it could be converted to produce some more useful aircraft (Tojo's, Frank's etc).

I guess wasting is a poor choice of words. With the ability in AE to increase factories one at a time (instead of the WitP way of doubling factories), I see little reason to convert whole factories, unless you don't plan on ever producing that plane (Ki-36 factory comes to mind as one of those to convert).

Just goes to show how every player is different. I keep the Ki-36 (due to the camera making it a nice little recon bomber), but will dump Ki-51 production as soon as practical (I hate the Sonia). And since you can convert all the light bombers to Lilly or Sally, it does make sense to do just that.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: Icedawg



By "wasting", I meant that it could be converted to produce some more useful aircraft (Tojo's, Frank's etc).

I guess wasting is a poor choice of words. With the ability in AE to increase factories one at a time (instead of the WitP way of doubling factories), I see little reason to convert whole factories, unless you don't plan on ever producing that plane (Ki-36 factory comes to mind as one of those to convert).

Just goes to show how every player is different. I keep the Ki-36 (due to the camera making it a nice little recon bomber), but will dump Ki-51 production as soon as practical (I hate the Sonia). And since you can convert all the light bombers to Lilly or Sally, it does make sense to do just that.

I hate them both, Shark. The only reason I'm producing the Sonia in my game is because I'm playing with PDU off and you need tons of them. Worthless piece of you know what. [:D]

[Xxzard]

In my book both the Sonia and Ida are pretty worthless, and I'm not a big fan of the lily. At least the sonia isn't quite as bad as in the original WITP where you had 2-3 hex max range out of the thing. (ofc this is just a result of hex size change)

The Ida with the camera might be helpful if you had small squadrons, but I can't see how flying 36 of them in a raid will make much sense if there are other planes to be used.