German Flieger Divisions not elite?

[RocketMan]

Why aren't the German Flieger divisions considered elite troops in the game Vic? In other words, why don't they get the +15% People Combat Bonus other elite units do?

Group Witzig (the German glider troops who captured Eban Emael) should also be elite.

[RocketMan]

The German 1st Mountain Division (1st GebirgsDivision) in the Case Yellow scenario and the 1st and 2nd Mountain Divisions in the Case White scenario should be elite as well.

I haven't checked the other scenarios, but any scenario where the Mountain Divisions or Airborne Divisions appear (Sealion definitely) should be changed to make them elite.

[D.Ilse]

well they were trained to be elite, but except for the few companies deployed in Norway of FJ, the 7th was uncombat tested..all the training in the world can't say how a unit will react when bullets start flying.

Look at 4.Panzer in Poland with all the training the unit had prior to the invasion and still the heavy losses they took in the campaign in tanks..80 alone in one engagement.

[Hexagon]

Well, elite units not allways have the best experience, elite maybe refer to a high morale level, better equipment, better training... not allways the experience is in the elite units... even regular units can have more experience than elite because elite units have 2 totally different use types, one is using then all the time (win lots of experience but have great casualties and are allways with replacements) an other use then as the last resource (like the old guard in napoleonic wars) that means that elite see short actions and usually VS a weak enemy.

When i think in units combat value based on no material values (equipment) i allways remember the "Age of Rifles" system that have morale, experience, training, cohesion and vitality... maybe add a training value is better than have a people bonus because not all units of an organization (call it people) have the same training and experience not is allways in the elite units.

PD: 4ht panzer have better training than other units but training dont necessary means better combat role, if the training is wrong... but a good training means be ready to suffer casualties and can fight with out break, like british in Bunker Hill a good mixture of training with experience...

[RocketMan]

In the Netherlands and Case Yellow scenarios, the dutch have six elite units - the Lt. Division Motorbikers, 3x Huzaren Motorijders and two Marinepositie units (although one of them is caled Mariniepositie, probably a typo). All the German SS units on the German side are also elite.

If all these units are considered elite, the German Paratroopers and Mountain troops should also be considered elite to be consistent.

[RocketMan]

Looking at the Case yellow scenario and counting the number of elite units for each country.

The Belgians have 6 elite units. All three battalions of both the 1st and 2nd Chasseurs Ardennais.

The British have no elite units.

As stated above, the dutch have six elite units. The Lt. Division Motorbikers, 3x Huzaren Motorijders and two Marinepositie units (although one of them is caled Mariniepositie, probably a typo).

The French have 15 (yes 15!) elite units. Both units of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Armored Divisions and all three units of the 1st and 2nd and 3rd Light Mechanized Divisions.

The Germans have 6 elite units, all of them SS and one of them is an artillery unit. All four units of the SS-Verfugungstruppe (one is the artillery unit), SS Der Fuherer and SS Leibstandarte AH.

So not only should the the German Airborne and Mountain divisions be elite (as well as the Grosdeutschland unit too), but at least some, and probably a lot, of the German Army units should be too. A lot of German units fought in the Polish campaign, so they have more claim to being elite than a bunch of Dutch or Belgien motobikers or untried French light mechanized units do. Or alternately, a lot of the Allied units need to have their elite status removed.

And I have a hard time understanding how the British have no elite units as the game is currently designed when the Belgians and Dutch both have 6 and the French have 15 (yes 15!).

Currently, I find the rational for which units are elite and which ones aren't hard to understand.

[RocketMan]

Looking at the Case White scenario.

The Germans have four elite units, all of them SS and one of them an Artillery unit. SS Reg. Deutschland/Kem, SS Art. Refiment/Kempf, SS Germania Mot Inf Reg, and SS Leibstandarte AH.

The Polish have 11 (11!) elite units. The 1st, 2nd and 21st Tank Battalions and all four units of the 1st and 2nd Legion Divisions (including the artillery units).

This just doesn't seem right to me.

[RocketMan]

I think I figured out Vic's rational for making elite units, at least in the Allied armies. I think the units in the allied armies were made elite if they were considered elite units of in the army in question, without considering whether they should be considered elite in relation to the other units in the game. Although I still don't understand why the German Airborne or Mountain Divisions wouldn't be considered elite in this context.