Petition to fix remaining bugs in 7.1
Moderator: MOD_SPWaW
Petition to fix remaining bugs in 7.1
Hello All!I have learned that there will be no more fixes for sp:waw.I am deeply saddened at this.I know the game is free but the more i play it the more i wish it had some of the bugs removed.Im not asking for oob fixes or anything that can be edited or fixed by users.All im asking is please address the issues of the bugs many of us have posted and please finish what you have started and that is the creation of a GREAT ww2 simulator.I will find it very hard to buy future products from Matrix if this is what happens especialy if i do fork out 55 bucks or so.I mean all of this in a respectful manner.
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Gary Tatro
- Posts: 1200
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2002 10:00 am
- Location: MA, US
To quote:
"What do you want for nothing? Rubber biscut"
If you like the game, play it. If you don't like it, don't play it.
But I find your philosophy on life a little strange. Say you go to a hardware store and they are giving away free shovels. Happy to get a free shovel you take one home and use it. And it works well for a while then the handle breaks. Now according to you, you would go back to that hardware store and demand that they fix the shovel or else you will not buy anything else from thier store.
Ridiculous was the word that came to my mind when I read your post.
Maxtrix is a for-profit business. It has provided enough charity in my mind.
If you like the game, play it. If you don't like it, don't play it.
But I find your philosophy on life a little strange. Say you go to a hardware store and they are giving away free shovels. Happy to get a free shovel you take one home and use it. And it works well for a while then the handle breaks. Now according to you, you would go back to that hardware store and demand that they fix the shovel or else you will not buy anything else from thier store.
Ridiculous was the word that came to my mind when I read your post.
Maxtrix is a for-profit business. It has provided enough charity in my mind.
"Are you going to do something or just stand there and bleed"
Say you go to a hardware store and they are giving away free shovels. Happy to get a free shovel you take one home and use it. And it works well for a while then the handle breaks. Now according to you, you would go back to that hardware store and demand that they fix the shovel or else you will not buy anything else from thier store.
ITs still customer satisfaction free or not.Read your locale Walmart return policy.If i saw they could care less about the shovels after they gave them out and let say the shovel splintered halfway through using them dont you think it would be in the best interest of the hardware store to fix it.So the next time i need a shovel i know i can depend on that hardware store.
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Gary Tatro
- Posts: 1200
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2002 10:00 am
- Location: MA, US
Customer Satisfaction??
Again I am confused by your thinking. "Customer" satisfaction implies that you PAID for the product you received. FREE is FREE.Originally posted by GYBLIN
ITs still customer satisfaction free or not.Read your locale Walmart return policy.If i saw they could care less about the shovels after they gave them out and let say the shovel splintered halfway through using them dont you think it would be in the best interest of the hardware store to fix it.So the next time i need a shovel i know i can depend on that hardware store.
You are NOT a custumer you are a benificiary of a GIFT. A GIFT is something you received for FREE.
Now if you paid for a computer game and then it was unplayable you would have something to complain about. I can not tell you how many games I purchased and shelved because of crashes or just unplayable. Merchant of Venus II, OpArt of War I-before the patches and CIV III-before the patches to name a few. If you honestly feel that stongly about it, I recommend you going back in the forum a year and read all the post about the conclusion of SPWAW work. It was not something done on a whim, it was a very difficult decision for matrix and something they did not want to do, but had to do to continue as a business.
"Are you going to do something or just stand there and bleed"
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Les_the_Sarge_9_1
- Posts: 3943
- Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2000 10:00 am
Matrix IS doing something about improving SPWaW 7.1!!!!
Its called the Combat Leader upgrade heheh:D
Hmm I think it is also interesting to mention I just got a copy of Steel Panthers II Modern Battles (retail copy as well) sent to me that I ordered from cdaccess.com
Will it bother me if I can only play this game inside of my alternate Win 98 SE OS (that comes complete with authentic blue screens)?
Nope I knew it might be limited in that way when I bought it.
I have been playing the SPMBT program lately (thanks yet again Mojo). I somehow mangled the sound and don't have any sounds for my games in there, my doing though (need to have my computer smart buddy look at it I supose).
Even when installed properly the mouse movement sucks large in SPMBT. Is this a problem, NO of course not (means I need to take longer with a mouse nothing more).
Whining that an old DOS design is a pain with my mouse ain't going to be a valid use of my day. I would actually be surprised if someone actually DID want to fix this for me.
The fact that SPWaW SPMBT and SPWW2 are all FREE FREE FREE can never be over looked.
It is a matter of record (buried down a long way in forums I expect) that I am on record as saying I thought Matrix had done enough for us even back as far as 5.1
That we have 7.1 is proof positive that Matrix likes it's fan's wishes perhaps TOOOOO much.
I sure hope they sell shitloads of Combat Leader cds.
Anything else will be a loud statement that we gamers are to many freeloaders and not enough genuine honest supporters.
And this is not to confuse us with ruxuis's Loyalists.
In deferment to ya ruxius, only Matrix can tell how many loyal fans there really are. Must be more than your thread implied.
But at the same time, lame Combat Leader sales will state categorically, that there are just to many that only want a hand out and not enough that will actually put their wallet where their mouth is.
On a related line of thinking, I have seen that over on Battlefront, there is a large interest in "lengthier demos" (in this case I refer to their new game Strategic Command). This to me spells only one thing, they want a game that is more "playable" and doesn't require an honest purchase.
Claims they "will" purchase, are as valid as "honest dear I wil pull out in time" (there is no evidence either statement is believed by many).
Alas the world DOES have a large number of individuals that will take without giving.
Its called the Combat Leader upgrade heheh:D
Hmm I think it is also interesting to mention I just got a copy of Steel Panthers II Modern Battles (retail copy as well) sent to me that I ordered from cdaccess.com
Will it bother me if I can only play this game inside of my alternate Win 98 SE OS (that comes complete with authentic blue screens)?
Nope I knew it might be limited in that way when I bought it.
I have been playing the SPMBT program lately (thanks yet again Mojo). I somehow mangled the sound and don't have any sounds for my games in there, my doing though (need to have my computer smart buddy look at it I supose).
Even when installed properly the mouse movement sucks large in SPMBT. Is this a problem, NO of course not (means I need to take longer with a mouse nothing more).
Whining that an old DOS design is a pain with my mouse ain't going to be a valid use of my day. I would actually be surprised if someone actually DID want to fix this for me.
The fact that SPWaW SPMBT and SPWW2 are all FREE FREE FREE can never be over looked.
It is a matter of record (buried down a long way in forums I expect) that I am on record as saying I thought Matrix had done enough for us even back as far as 5.1
That we have 7.1 is proof positive that Matrix likes it's fan's wishes perhaps TOOOOO much.
I sure hope they sell shitloads of Combat Leader cds.
Anything else will be a loud statement that we gamers are to many freeloaders and not enough genuine honest supporters.
And this is not to confuse us with ruxuis's Loyalists.
In deferment to ya ruxius, only Matrix can tell how many loyal fans there really are. Must be more than your thread implied.
But at the same time, lame Combat Leader sales will state categorically, that there are just to many that only want a hand out and not enough that will actually put their wallet where their mouth is.
On a related line of thinking, I have seen that over on Battlefront, there is a large interest in "lengthier demos" (in this case I refer to their new game Strategic Command). This to me spells only one thing, they want a game that is more "playable" and doesn't require an honest purchase.
Claims they "will" purchase, are as valid as "honest dear I wil pull out in time" (there is no evidence either statement is believed by many).
Alas the world DOES have a large number of individuals that will take without giving.
I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.
I am willing to pay for any further upgrades.Hell matrix could have had me for 50 bucks easy if i didnt know it was free.I kinda stumbled into the game.I think its better than sp3.I started on Spww2 but i hated the clunkyness of it.Now i cant go back from sp:waw.Like i said in a earlier post and in the beggining of this one.I realize it was FREE.I accept it,i respect it.Its just one or two SMALL things i wish could be fixed.I too have a stack of old crap bug filled games that make great clay pigeons or beer coasters.Being new to this forum i didnt know it was addressed earlier and im not going to dig through a year of posts for it.So be it!.
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Les_the_Sarge_9_1
- Posts: 3943
- Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2000 10:00 am
Hmmm to the SPMBT crowd hmmm just installed Steel Panthers II the original thing. And hey the mouse works correctly.
So what I want to know is this, while they were ensuring that SPMBT was soooooo much better, how did they manage to bugger up the mouse software?
A fix that causes more problems than improvements is NOT a fix eh.
It is likely I will run my SPII original game more than the drag the mouse through mud SPMBT game unless someone addresses the mouse mangling.
I like accuracy as much as the next guy, but this is a game first and last, and a sluggish mouse mangles my fun factor.
So what I want to know is this, while they were ensuring that SPMBT was soooooo much better, how did they manage to bugger up the mouse software?
A fix that causes more problems than improvements is NOT a fix eh.
It is likely I will run my SPII original game more than the drag the mouse through mud SPMBT game unless someone addresses the mouse mangling.
I like accuracy as much as the next guy, but this is a game first and last, and a sluggish mouse mangles my fun factor.
I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.
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Charles2222
- Posts: 3687
- Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2001 10:00 am
Les the Sarge 9-1: Sluggish mouse? Don't you mean over-zealous mouse? There is a fix for over-zealous mice. I fixed mine (apart from centering the screen on the mini-map). I can't recall the fix, but there's a file which has like a list of 8 numbers, and it seems like the 5th oneis the one to adjust. It might not fix your problem, but you could toy with it nonetheless. I believe the default for that number was "0", but I changed mine to "7". Perhaps yours is sitting on 10 and should be 3 or so.
Check this thread, it had what I mentioned: http://www.wargamer.com/cgi-bin/ultimat ... 4&t=000239
Check this thread, it had what I mentioned: http://www.wargamer.com/cgi-bin/ultimat ... 4&t=000239
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Les_the_Sarge_9_1
- Posts: 3943
- Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2000 10:00 am
Well, seeing as I play MBT as much as I play WaW, I've never had my mouse do anything it shouldn't, and the way it works is just great, I love it as much as I love WaW.
As to He who bought the MC's...you're actually in a minority of WaW players I think. I've yet to buy an MC, I've not had WaW that long, and I plan on, as soon as I have the spare cash, getting LV, as I don't like the pacific theatre much, I don't plan on getting Watchtower, and would get the MCNA if there were any more copies.
And, if you want Bug-Fixes, prepare to spend the cash to get Combat Leader, I am, if my computer can run it.
Sure, I'd love for WaW to be better and not have to pay for it, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to dish out the money and buy the game. As for the longer demos, sure, I love demos, the more of a game I can play around with that works fully, the more I'm likely to think "Wow, I bet if I tried this and this...aww, but I can't cause it's the demo, time to go get the game!" And yes, I know I'm not the normal gamer, the predominance of Warez proves that some gamers are lazy hypocrites who whine about bugs in games they don't even own
Anyways...my two cents.
As to He who bought the MC's...you're actually in a minority of WaW players I think. I've yet to buy an MC, I've not had WaW that long, and I plan on, as soon as I have the spare cash, getting LV, as I don't like the pacific theatre much, I don't plan on getting Watchtower, and would get the MCNA if there were any more copies.
And, if you want Bug-Fixes, prepare to spend the cash to get Combat Leader, I am, if my computer can run it.
Sure, I'd love for WaW to be better and not have to pay for it, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to dish out the money and buy the game. As for the longer demos, sure, I love demos, the more of a game I can play around with that works fully, the more I'm likely to think "Wow, I bet if I tried this and this...aww, but I can't cause it's the demo, time to go get the game!" And yes, I know I'm not the normal gamer, the predominance of Warez proves that some gamers are lazy hypocrites who whine about bugs in games they don't even own
Anyways...my two cents.
If you can read this, you're at the end of my post.
SPWaW Record: W:0 / L:0 / D:0
SPWaW Record: W:0 / L:0 / D:0
I have 7.1 with LVMC + patches and im pretty happy with it...no major bugs this far, maybe some little but i think its fully playable and greatest freeware game i have ever seen before and i think i can wait Combat Leader, so they really should put their efforts on that and not make any patches to spwaw, but hey, its only my opinion 
"You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone
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Les_the_Sarge_9_1
- Posts: 3943
- Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2000 10:00 am
What hasn't been said, is when you buy a Mega Campaign all you are buying is the Mega Campaign (you are NOT buying Steel Panthers, its not sellable).
Sure a person can mistake having bought the Steel Panthers software, but Matrix can't sell Steel Panthers (any version, no one but SSI owns it regardless of modification).
That Matrix was able to put Steel Panthers on a cd that was being sold is just a matter of creative convenience (if they can give it away on their web site why complain if they give it away on cds containing proprietory software not belonging to SSI).
So any comment, to the effect, that a person has bought anything must be isolated to the Mega Campaign.
Now buying an add on program to an already old program is something a person should go into knowing that it is an add on to an old program (and all that entails).
Anyone that buys old software should know already, that old software often doesn't play nice with new hardware and software environments (if you didn't know this congradulations you know less than me, and that takes some doing hehe).
As I mentioned I just bought the original cd of Steel Panthers II.
I wasn't even the slightest bit annoyed it didn't auto install on my XP system (I really didn't expect it to).
I have Steel Panthers III in my Win 98 environment, makes sense that I would likely be installing Steel Panthers II in there, so I did.
I paid 20 bucks US to get the copy of Steel Panthers II (came with the scenarios disk as well). I could have said screw it I have SPMBT why get the original unmodified game. But I like having the original thing normally (mistakes included, actually I dont aaaaaaaalways agree with people when they say "it's not done right").
I have the patch for SPMBT (just haven't gotten around to worrying over a game that is low man on the totem pole right now). It might solve the mouse thing (I wouldn't mind but it's not important enough to worry over).
But this conversation would not be occuring, this product would not have interested me, I wouldn't have found I wanted SPII and SP III in the first place if Matrix hadn't provided me with the windows friendly earlier version of their effort that became SPWaW (I used to hate trying to installing or running Steel Panthers).
That they gave us one upgrade after another is not only commendable, it's downright unusual in this world today. There is normally no free lunch eh. What is free is rarely worth anything.
And yet here we sit while some of us quibble that their free game is not up to standards!!!
Man it's incredible. If I had a free product for offer, and someone implied I was not performing my duty sufficiently to the consumer, if that widely accepted, massively popular, freebie was not 100%, well I would have words for that customer, and they would not be pretty, and I would not be hurt if that "customer" never darkened my doorstep further.
But that is me.
Sure a person can mistake having bought the Steel Panthers software, but Matrix can't sell Steel Panthers (any version, no one but SSI owns it regardless of modification).
That Matrix was able to put Steel Panthers on a cd that was being sold is just a matter of creative convenience (if they can give it away on their web site why complain if they give it away on cds containing proprietory software not belonging to SSI).
So any comment, to the effect, that a person has bought anything must be isolated to the Mega Campaign.
Now buying an add on program to an already old program is something a person should go into knowing that it is an add on to an old program (and all that entails).
Anyone that buys old software should know already, that old software often doesn't play nice with new hardware and software environments (if you didn't know this congradulations you know less than me, and that takes some doing hehe).
As I mentioned I just bought the original cd of Steel Panthers II.
I wasn't even the slightest bit annoyed it didn't auto install on my XP system (I really didn't expect it to).
I have Steel Panthers III in my Win 98 environment, makes sense that I would likely be installing Steel Panthers II in there, so I did.
I paid 20 bucks US to get the copy of Steel Panthers II (came with the scenarios disk as well). I could have said screw it I have SPMBT why get the original unmodified game. But I like having the original thing normally (mistakes included, actually I dont aaaaaaaalways agree with people when they say "it's not done right").
I have the patch for SPMBT (just haven't gotten around to worrying over a game that is low man on the totem pole right now). It might solve the mouse thing (I wouldn't mind but it's not important enough to worry over).
But this conversation would not be occuring, this product would not have interested me, I wouldn't have found I wanted SPII and SP III in the first place if Matrix hadn't provided me with the windows friendly earlier version of their effort that became SPWaW (I used to hate trying to installing or running Steel Panthers).
That they gave us one upgrade after another is not only commendable, it's downright unusual in this world today. There is normally no free lunch eh. What is free is rarely worth anything.
And yet here we sit while some of us quibble that their free game is not up to standards!!!
Man it's incredible. If I had a free product for offer, and someone implied I was not performing my duty sufficiently to the consumer, if that widely accepted, massively popular, freebie was not 100%, well I would have words for that customer, and they would not be pretty, and I would not be hurt if that "customer" never darkened my doorstep further.
But that is me.
I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.
GYBLIN, you may as well get used to the fact...
...that SPWaW 7.1 was the FINAL game version. As an analogy, if you're a Star Trek fan, as I am, then regard 7.1 as the last movie with Jim Kirk and Spock. The Next Generation is Combat Leader. There is NO turning back. Now, IF someone were to get hold of the code, then you could tweak it to your heart's content. Matrix is apparently bound by contract to keep the SPWaW code under lock & key. You may want to inquire whether the code will ever enter the public domain. If you go with the official Matrix position, then SPWaW, as far as they are concerned, is a discontinued project. It's only fair to say that the company has done us wargamers a great service for making this available, BUT it was this game that launched Matrix into the awareness of wargamers like you and me, so they'll be forever associated with it, whether they like it or not. Before Paul Vebber jumps on me for this, I will say that Matrix has EARNED all of the praise they've gotten for their efforts, and they ARE, as far as I'm concerned, truly dedicated to advancing the art of wargame design. You only have to look at the quantum leap from SPWAW 2.1 to 7.1 to see what I mean. I've bitched & moaned as much as the next guy for some of the things they've done, BUT, they DO listen to us bitchers & moaners, and IF we have something useful to offer, they're willing to listen. I may be preaching to the converted, but there it is.
Ok Guys please dont blast me as whining.i started the thread to see if anyone else out there felt as strong as i do about the situation.I've seen alot of threads about "7.1 crashing" and why does my game go blank when i do x.Plus add in the millions of oob bitchers and why dont we have this feature and that feature.In this case this thread fails because not one person who has bitched about there game crashing has come here and spoken up.Must be those freebie lovers you guys are talking about.So i guess this is a wrap.Besides i have a little post it stuck to my monitor that tells me to save after every turn.:p
Respectfuly Gyblin
Respectfuly Gyblin
To say you're buying the mega campaigns and the game is free is simply semantics. The megas won't run without the game. If there are flaws in the game they will carry over to the megas. So if there are flaws in the game they should be fixed at least for the folks who bought the megas.
I don't personally find flaws in the game. It seems fine to me. But I only play occasionally since I play other games too. I only say IF there are flaws because someone who plays much more than I do says there are.
I don't plan on buying CL. My computer won't handle it and I feel like I've upgraded enough in the last 20 years. And I have plenty of games I don't need another. So since I spent money on the megas I'd like spwaw without bugs. I haven't found any but if they're there I'd sure like them fixed.
I don't personally find flaws in the game. It seems fine to me. But I only play occasionally since I play other games too. I only say IF there are flaws because someone who plays much more than I do says there are.
I don't plan on buying CL. My computer won't handle it and I feel like I've upgraded enough in the last 20 years. And I have plenty of games I don't need another. So since I spent money on the megas I'd like spwaw without bugs. I haven't found any but if they're there I'd sure like them fixed.
The Megas all come with the game to my knowledge, all you pay for is the MC's themselves, they come with a copy of the game since you're quite correct, it is required, but you're not paying for it.
No one ~forced~ you to buy the MC's, you could have done what I did, and downloaded it. I want to buy the MC's because they'll add to the gameplay I get out of the game, and for no other reason.
It's not semantics to say the game is free. It is. The MC's are not games, they are expansion packs if you will, to the game, which was free. They're not required in any way/shape/form, and therefore, the game, which is free, is free.
I don't understand what you mean by saying it's semantics, except that you are complaining that you payed money for a buggy product, and I kinda doubt that's what you're saying. If you think you deserve a fix just because you payed for the MC's, I agree, the MC's should work perfectly, there should be nothing wrong with them, but the game was still free, and if there are bugs, you didn't pay for it's development and distribution, so I don't see you having a valid point about the core game files using the argument that you paid for the MC's...I am understanding what you're saying, right? If not, please, elaborate, I'm tired and my brain's not alltogether with me, so if this doesn't make sense to you, tell me.
No one ~forced~ you to buy the MC's, you could have done what I did, and downloaded it. I want to buy the MC's because they'll add to the gameplay I get out of the game, and for no other reason.
It's not semantics to say the game is free. It is. The MC's are not games, they are expansion packs if you will, to the game, which was free. They're not required in any way/shape/form, and therefore, the game, which is free, is free.
I don't understand what you mean by saying it's semantics, except that you are complaining that you payed money for a buggy product, and I kinda doubt that's what you're saying. If you think you deserve a fix just because you payed for the MC's, I agree, the MC's should work perfectly, there should be nothing wrong with them, but the game was still free, and if there are bugs, you didn't pay for it's development and distribution, so I don't see you having a valid point about the core game files using the argument that you paid for the MC's...I am understanding what you're saying, right? If not, please, elaborate, I'm tired and my brain's not alltogether with me, so if this doesn't make sense to you, tell me.
If you can read this, you're at the end of my post.
SPWaW Record: W:0 / L:0 / D:0
SPWaW Record: W:0 / L:0 / D:0
Just another comment
I have played this game since I found ver3 on a disc in a mag. I have never had a CTD while playing SPWaW in all that time, I have all MC's and have had no failures in MCNA and no failures playing PBEM. I upgraded to 7.1 with the help of a fellow gamer, my machine is a P2 w 2 Gbs HD. Maybe, just maybe, an old game updated likes an old somewhat dated machine. I'm waiting for the last patch and I intend to keep playing till I run out scenarios or the big guy upstairs says stop. With the stash of excellent scenarios from many fellow gamers I will probably never get to the end. I can't afford to upgrade for CL so that's out of the question. I Thank MATRIX for an excellent 3 plus years of gaming enjoyment. There I said it and I'm glad, play the game and enjoy it, it's only a game, and it's free. GWITCHYABELLYACHING.
"God Bless America and All the Young men and women who give their all to protect Her"....chief