Price?

Command Ops: Battles From The Bulge takes the highly acclaimed Airborne Assault engine back to the West Front for the crucial engagements during the Ardennes Offensive. Test your command skills in the fiery crucible of Airborne Assault’s “pausable continuous time” uber-realistic game engine. It's up to you to develop the strategy, issue the orders, set the pace, and try to win the laurels of victory in the cold, shadowy Ardennes.
Command Ops: Highway to the Reich brings us to the setting of one of the most epic and controversial battles of World War II: Operation Market-Garden, covering every major engagement along Hell’s Highway, from the surprise capture of Joe’s Bridge by the Irish Guards a week before the offensive to the final battles on “The Island” south of Arnhem.

Moderators: Panther Paul, Arjuna

User avatar
JudgeDredd
Posts: 8356
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 7:28 pm
Location: Scotland

RE: Price?

Post by JudgeDredd »

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns
ORIGINAL: billyjj
ORIGINAL: bretg80

Still pointless... It's like going down to your favorite car company with a sign and calling the news media to broadcast your perspective about their pricing. Sure, you get your 15 minutes, but they aren't going to change their price because you are complaining about it. Especially if other people are buying their cars.

What affects price. Perceived value, quality and demand.

This game is in demand, it has perceived value and great quality. It is a BMW, Lexus, Rolls Royce, Mercedes, etc. You don't go to a BMW dealer and complain about price. They'll laugh you out of the dealership.

I'm kind of laughing here that this thread is still alive.

I'm not sure what country you live in but in the US buying a car is one big price negotiation, they won't "laugh you out of the dealer" unless you are being completely ridiculous.. wanting to pay 40-50 dollars for a video game instead of 80 is not the same as offering 10K dollars for a 50K car. People complain about the price all day long difference is the car dealer will cut you a deal because you will go somewhere else... here they got you by the nuts because you want something only they can sell, so that is why they are jacking up the price and saying PAY IT OR FUCK OFF. There can really be no demand for the game without supply... with digital downloads supply would be unlimited.. the only "demand" for the game is that you want it... higher price = lower demand..

+1 for billyjj he wins the world cup of reasoning. [:D]


Also let's just do some math here. We'll make it real easy. Let's just say they had 1000 loyal customers willing and ready to pay $60 for this game that comes to 60000 they could have made. But, due to the high price they lost half of their loyal customer base (based on pricing threads in several forums this isn't far from the truth) so they got 500 of their loyal customers to pay $80 for this game and that comes to 40000 so I really don't see how this marketing strategy is going to pay off for them. To just break EVEN to the 60000 they would have to get 750 of their loyal customers out of 1000 to buy it and that ain't happening. Not to mention they pissed off 250 to 500 loyal customers by pricing out of their range. That's going to effect future sales of other games down the line as those customers turn away from Matrixgames for other more reasonable sources like Paradox or Strategy First or Shrapnel or HPS or Battlefront.

Just some food for thought that breaking even point is a long ways off.
wow. Such insight into Matrix Games financial position re this game. I had no idea you worked within the team. As you well know I still have an issue with the price, however how does plucking figures out the air help?

As an example...let's just do some math here. We'll make it real easy. Let's just say they had 1000 loyal customers willing and ready to pay $80 for this game that comes to 80000 they could have made. But, due to the high price they lost 10 of their loyal customer base (based on pricing threads in several forums this isn't far from the truth) so they got 990 of their loyal customers to pay $80 for this game and that comes to 79200 so I really don't see how this marketing strategy is going to pay off for them. To just break EVEN to the 80000 they would have to get 1000 of their loyal customers out of 1000 to buy it and that ain't happening. Not to mention they pissed off 10 loyal customers by pricing out of their range. That's going to effect future sales of other games down the line as those customers turn away from Matrixgames for other more reasonable sources like Paradox or Strategy First or Shrapnel or HPS or Battlefront.

point? Figures plucked out the air mean bugger all...your example is just as bad as the pathetic BMW comparisons!

By the way - I can tell just from reading your post that you work in a stats department. [:D]
Alba gu' brath
MajFrankBurns
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:55 pm

RE: Price?

Post by MajFrankBurns »

18c engagement rings have long lasting value, games like this don't. If you notice the price of gasoline has gone down .25 in the last month. [:D]

Also petrol is a necessity, games aren't. engagement rings are a necessity if you want your future wife to marry you games are not. And even mentioning credit cards is a laugh we all know how they hide those interest rates in their schemes to get you to use them as many people who have them never read the fine print.

So come back with something more useful all that you listed is fail.
daft
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat May 18, 2002 4:05 pm

RE: Price?

Post by daft »

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns



+1 for billyjj he wins the world cup of reasoning. [:D]


Also let's just do some math here. We'll make it real easy. Let's just say they had 1000 loyal customers willing and ready to pay $60 for this game that comes to 60000 they could have made. But, due to the high price they lost half of their loyal customer base (based on pricing threads in several forums this isn't far from the truth) so they got 500 of their loyal customers to pay $80 for this game and that comes to 40000 so I really don't see how this marketing strategy is going to pay off for them. To just break EVEN to the 60000 they would have to get 750 of their loyal customers out of 1000 to buy it and that ain't happening. Not to mention they pissed off 250 to 500 loyal customers by pricing out of their range. That's going to effect future sales of other games down the line as those customers turn away from Matrixgames for other more reasonable sources like Paradox or Strategy First or Shrapnel or HPS or Battlefront.

Just some food for thought that breaking even point is a long ways off.

Nothing like doing math and statistics with arbitrarily selected numbers. In this case I trust both Matrix and Panther Games market knowledge over what you suggest. That certainly doesn't mean that the sales won't bomb or that BftB is failing financially, although I don't think so myself. They have obviously gone over the numbers themselves and sketched a number of different scenarios, so in this case I doubt they didn't know the risks and rewards involved when deciding on the price.
MajFrankBurns
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:55 pm

RE: Price?

Post by MajFrankBurns »

As an example...let's just do some math here. We'll make it real easy. Let's just say they had 1000 loyal customers willing and ready to pay $80 for this game that comes to 80000 they could have made. But, due to the high price they lost 10 of their loyal customer base (based on pricing threads in several forums this isn't far from the truth) so they got 990 of their loyal customers to pay $80 for this game and that comes to 79200 so I really don't see how this marketing strategy is going to pay off for them. To just break EVEN to the 80000 they would have to get 1000 of their loyal customers out of 1000 to buy it and that ain't happening. Not to mention they pissed off 10 loyal customers by pricing out of their range. That's going to effect future sales of other games down the line as those customers turn away from Matrixgames for other more reasonable sources like Paradox or Strategy First or Shrapnel or HPS or Battlefront.

point? Figures plucked out the air mean bugger all...your example is just as bad as the pathetic BMW comparisons!

By the way - I can tell just from reading your post that you work in a stats department.

It's pretty easy to see from this thread alone that more than 10 people aren't going to buy this game based on price alone. Then you have those that aren't going to buy it because of the type of game it is. Then you have those that aren't going to buy it because of the era. You're assumptions are off the charts rediculous, mine are not.
MajFrankBurns
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:55 pm

RE: Price?

Post by MajFrankBurns »

ORIGINAL: daft

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns



+1 for billyjj he wins the world cup of reasoning. [:D]


Also let's just do some math here. We'll make it real easy. Let's just say they had 1000 loyal customers willing and ready to pay $60 for this game that comes to 60000 they could have made. But, due to the high price they lost half of their loyal customer base (based on pricing threads in several forums this isn't far from the truth) so they got 500 of their loyal customers to pay $80 for this game and that comes to 40000 so I really don't see how this marketing strategy is going to pay off for them. To just break EVEN to the 60000 they would have to get 750 of their loyal customers out of 1000 to buy it and that ain't happening. Not to mention they pissed off 250 to 500 loyal customers by pricing out of their range. That's going to effect future sales of other games down the line as those customers turn away from Matrixgames for other more reasonable sources like Paradox or Strategy First or Shrapnel or HPS or Battlefront.

Just some food for thought that breaking even point is a long ways off.

Nothing like doing math and statistics with arbitrarily selected numbers. In this case I trust both Matrix and Panther Games market knowledge over what you suggest. That certainly doesn't mean that the sales won't bomb or that BftB is failing financially, although I don't think so myself. They have obviously gone over the numbers themselves and sketched a number of different scenarios, so in this case I doubt they didn't know the risks and rewards involved when deciding on the price.

first of all there's no way ANYONE can know what the sales figures are going to be. Myself or Matrixgames. I can come just as close with my assumptions as they can. Predictions of individual value of something like a game are rediculous in the first place. But, as I've pointed out those are just as much of the possible outcomes as their own. We'll see who's right in the end won't we? When there is no futher production of Panther games I'll be back to tell you I told you so.
User avatar
Adam Parker
Posts: 1848
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2002 8:05 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

RE: Price?

Post by Adam Parker »

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

... all that you listed is fail.

Is that like "all your bases are belong to us"?

You should be a game designer Frank!
MajFrankBurns
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:55 pm

RE: Price?

Post by MajFrankBurns »

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

... all that you listed is fail.

Is that like "all your bases are belong to us"?

You should be a game designer Frank!

If you're going to debate then debate don't start acting like a child.
DanOppenheim
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:41 am

RE: Price?

Post by DanOppenheim »

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns
If you're going to debate then debate don't start acting like a child.
Oh the irony!
daft
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat May 18, 2002 4:05 pm

RE: Price?

Post by daft »

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns


first of all there's no way ANYONE can know what the sales figures are going to be. Myself or Matrixgames. I can come just as close with my assumptions as they can. Predictions of individual value of something like a game are rediculous in the first place. But, as I've pointed out those are just as much of the possible outcomes as their own. We'll see who's right in the end won't we? When there is no futher production of Panther games I'll be back to tell you I told you so.

No, but Matrix and PG at least have a reasonable understanding of the market in the sense that they at least know how many units this series has sold in the past. They also have a decent understanding of how the price effects the market in terms of diminishing sales etc. You don't. You are just guessing, they are at the very least estimating based on historical evidence and experiences.
User avatar
JudgeDredd
Posts: 8356
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 7:28 pm
Location: Scotland

RE: Price?

Post by JudgeDredd »

I think we have seen into the mindset that is MFB - he simply wants Panther Games to fail. I on the other hand do not, though I would like them to rethink their pricing when they release their next game.

"I told you so" is very strong in MFBs vocabulary and he desperately needs to be proven right - just like an old time long lost friend. Perhaps he will...I hope not but you can count on this - he WILL be back to tell you he was right if they do fail and he WON'T be back to tell you he was wrong if they don't fail...put a bet on that - it's money in the bank! [:D]
Alba gu' brath
User avatar
Prince of Eckmühl
Posts: 2459
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:37 pm
Location: Texas

RE: Price?

Post by Prince of Eckmühl »

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

If you're going to debate then debate don't start acting like a child.

You mean like this:

tm.asp?m=2497285 [&:]
Government is the opiate of the masses.
User avatar
Arjuna
Posts: 17768
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 11:18 am
Location: Canberra, Australia
Contact:

RE: Price?

Post by Arjuna »

Ok everyone let's stop playing the man. If you don't have anything new to add, then I think it best to refrain from posting here. That goes for both sides of the debate.

Now just for the record I am constrained legally from devulging sales figures. Suffice to say that I am pleased with the sales to date. There won't be any price reductions any time soon.

Now as I said please refrain from regurgiating the same old arguments. After 24 pages I think we have covered everything. And no "I told you so" posts either. Let's focus our energies on more positive things.
Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com
User avatar
Erik Rutins
Posts: 39324
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

RE: Price?

Post by Erik Rutins »

I agree, I think this thread has run its course at this point. After 24 pages of posts, everything that could reasonably be said about the price one way or another has been said and responded to, both officially and among customers.

Locking this one up, thanks to everyone for their feedback on this, we've read everything posted here.

Regards,

- Erik
Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC


Image

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.
Post Reply

Return to “Command Ops Series”