Price?

[RayWolfe]

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper

those terrible "liberals/socialists" in Europe!

eh?

It's what we call irony.
I thought you, a fellow Brit, would not need it explaining to you! [:'(]

[boudi]

65€ + french VAT = 78€. Ah ah ah. It must be a joke. [:D] Very funny. Thank you.

[Knavery]

ORIGINAL: RayWolfe

ORIGINAL: Knavery
They'll become a boutique and use terms like "military simulations" rather than "games" to justify their decisions.

No. They ARE a boutique and this IS a military simulation.

Buy your FP Shooter from mass market sources at mass market prices.

I give a prediction that BftB type programs will be dead within a few years because the people producing them will no longer be content with living on bread and marge while people like those on here consider them to be fat cats living on a life of luxury.

... and what amazes me most, is that all this bitching comes from upholders of the Great Capitalist System. I'd expect such comments to emanate from those terrible "liberals/socialists" in Europe!

I think everyone here agrees that we don't want these guys living on bread and marge. We should toss them a pizza once in a while.

Seriously though... My main concern is that the price model will shift upwards permanently making these products unnaffordable to most folks, which sucks because I fall into that category and love gaming. But if that's what they need to do to live more comfortably, I completely understand that. This isn't a capitalist vs. socialist argument--at least not from my end. It boils down to nothing but affordability.

[Ron]

Ignoring all the smoke and mirrors, it comes down to price versus value on the gaming market. There are a lot of wargames out there offering much more for less, fact. You don't have to look very far. This talk of 400+ hours on BftB is a red herring; I would be more inclined to believe the typical dedicated player would realistically get 50 hours maybe which is probably pushing it. Personally, from previous titles I don't think I spent anywhere near 50 hours before moving on. If anyone did spend the magical 400 hours on BftB, or previous titles, they would be the exception to the rule! If this was a monster game ala WitP and the like I could see the value, but just the one operation?? No way.

I would like to honestly hear from the people who bought, how much time they actually spent playing it in six month's time. No subconscious justifications for having spent so much money or how great the engine is or guilty feelings for wanting something right now etc, just an honest appraisal of how much they played it.

[Rocko911]

Ron, I cannot agree more. I perhaps played the previous version 30 hours max. I however play a competitors game almost 400 hours and going. That game is much more expansive in global warfare and is turn based. That costs $45 dollars and has an expansive community adding scenarios. The fact is that you are correct about being many choices of games that are better or as good as this game for alot less.

[DanOppenheim]

Even if I only get 50 hours from it, which is almost certainly far under what I'll play it for, then it'll be worth the money, That's £1.30 an hour. Not bad. Also, I don't see anything offering more for less. I've played a good many other wargames and there's nothing that comes close, frankly. Some fill their niche fairly well, but this is the only one I've played where it doesn't just feel like I'm playing a game - the suspension of disbelief is far easier to achieve and isn't rudely interrupted by hexagons or turns, not to mention the zillion clicks that fill them.

edit: It's also the case that there are very few wargames out there that are trying to achieve what this one is. They're all busy running as far down the evolutionary dead-end that was born with boardgames, while this one feels modern and like the start of something new.

[Rocko911]

Different strokes for different folks.

[DanOppenheim]

Sure, it's just a shame everyone who comes here to tell those who enjoy the game that they're wrong don't also subscribe to that view.

[Toby42]

While I'm all fired up! I'm about sick of this price complaining. A company can charge what they want for their product(s). You can choose to buy or not. If the price is out of line, they won't sell their goods. If not they'll make a profit!!!

[Knavery]

ORIGINAL: DanO

Sure, it's just a shame everyone who comes here to tell those who enjoy the game that they're wrong don't also subscribe to that view.

I'm only aware of one person in particular that dislikes the game mechanics on these forums. I haven't heard anyone else complain about the game aside from price. I've actually heard that it's quite good from others on the forum. And to be fair, I've not heard one person here tell anyone else that they're wrong.

[DanOppenheim]

I didn't say anyone disliked the game.

OK, maybe wrong is the incorrect term. I'm more just bored with the "I can get more for less with X" or "X has bigger scope", when that's all very well and all, but I happen to think X is a bit rubbish and not at all the sort of game I like, never mind the fact those comparisons are entirely missing the point, but I don't bother going into X's forum and moaning about it, especially when I don't own the game!

Maybe I'm imagining all the pointless negativity. I don't know. I can't be bothered to trawl through 500 posts to try and find some examples.

Oh and £65 isn't a lot of money. There, I said it.

[Toby42]

I just bought two ink cartridges for my printer. $84.01!!!!!

[htuna]

ORIGINAL: Treale

I just bought two ink cartridges for my printer. $84.01!!!!!

NOW THAT'S A REAL RIP OFF!!!... I bought a Laser printer for the wife (she's school teacher), she wanted to know why I was wasting money on another printer.. In the end we save a lot of money.... Ink Cartridges are the companies cash cow.. they'd give you the printer for free, if they can guarantee you'll waste the money on the cartridges!

[Toby42]

ORIGINAL: cmurphy625

ORIGINAL: Treale

I just bought two ink cartridges for my printer. $84.01!!!!!

NOW THAT'S A REAL RIP OFF!!!... I bought a Laser printer for the wife (she's school teacher), she wanted to know why I was wasting money on another printer.. In the end we save a lot of money.... Ink Cartridges are the companies cash cow.. they'd give you the printer for free, if they can guarantee you'll waste the money on the cartridges!

Now that argument makes sense [:(]

[MorningDew]

IMHO, a focus should be on making the manuals highly usable on ereaders. If I can read the manually easily on my Nook, I'd never want to print it. But, for example, the WWI manual ends up with tables that don't format properly etc, heading out of place etc, meaning I need to refer to another method of reading them to be able to completely use them.

[OnTheContrary]

Geez, this thread still going on?

Anyway, it might help looking at this as a software first, simulation second, and game third, if at all. (As already someone more or less implied.)

The sole purpose of games is to provide entertainment. In simulations, however, the situation is different. I expect more than entertainment from this game, and judging from HTTR, this delivers. I don't view this as a game, but as a hobby - an investment to investigate a particular aspect in this wonderful field. From that standpoint, even those 75 euros on a virtually zero student budget is justified, as the game will not only provide strategic and tactical joy, but also teach me about history and military in that particular period of time, and even let me experience what a commander goes through, in a very unique manner.

Producing games and simulations is very different. In games, you generally care about the gameplay and try to make it so that the game provides an enjoyable experience.  In simulations, you aim for a sufficiently accurate representation of some aspect of reality. Software that is both a game and simulation has to balance these two out, and is therefore more difficult to produce. Especially when the expected buying force is small.

I can perfectly understand if people won't buy this simply because the theater does not interest them. However, refusing to buy the software solely because it is priced $20 more than a new game tastes of apples and oranges to me. And I'm saying this as a student on a practically zero budget (who will still buy the game).

[goodwoodrw]

I thought lots of political talk got a thread locked, what do we have to do to get this thread locked. Ah the game is grossly overpriced and junk junk junk junk junk junk junk junk, the AI is smarter than me and doesn't cheat, I'm not getting my monies worth as the game was shipped incomplete, where are my bugs If I'm a gonna pay $90  for a game I want my obligatory bugs that come with most games, come on where my monies worth. And what else have u done you seduce me into buying this near bugless game by producing a six videos that actually show me the the new features, game mechanics, how to play the game and basic tactics, thats a bit rough where's the glitzy vids showing beautiful cut scenes, the endless same shots of the UI and some dude rambling and mumbling through the game's features. And how dare u force me to watch tutorial demos longer than some games keep my playing interest, and finally u guys should gaoled for spending hundreds of hours just to get the AI to work responsibly and then charging customers like for your efforts shame shame shame ( Thanks Daryn for letting me use your line). [:-][:-][:-]

[Toby42]

I have only one question: What is gaoled ????

[Arnir]

The concept works both ways folks.  People who don't want to be in this thread don't have to come here.  Lots of folks seem to be trolling lately, but trying to get a thread locked because you don't like it doesn't seem to be much different.  If this one gets locked you just know others will spawn, so what not just keep it contained here?

Used to be that personal attacks and silly nationalistic stuff got one a knuckle rapping around here but not lately.  Times are a changing.

On topic:  time will tell if the price is too high for Matrix or not.  If it is, it will come down.  If it isn't, it won't.  Not rocket science.  Complaining about it won't help, but allow people to discuss it works as a relief valve.  Discuss does not equal insults.

[Arnir]

ORIGINAL: Treale

I have only one question: What is gaoled ????

I think that means jailed.