Price?

[Perturabo]

Panther Games has already explained it - they can't get more sales because of the niche market, so they need to sell it for higher price to make the whole work and research put into the game worthwhile.

ORIGINAL: boatrigm

With BFTB I don't want to create scenarios so the editor is a waste of money to me.

I think a Developer version with editor for $79.99 and a Player version with no editor for $59.99 would be perfect!

Actually, moddability adds value mainly for players, because they are going to be able to play mods for tens/hundreds more hours. People who actually use the modding tools are the ones who are additionally spending their time and money (for research) on adding value to the game for the rest of people.

[SuluSea]

ORIGINAL: hgilmer3

I haven't posted too much on the price.  I have posted a couple of times, though.

Can anyone explain to me the reasoning behind raising the price on older games?  At the time you decided this is the break even price for your efforts and now you have decided to up the price?  Does this mean that the Bulge game will have its price raised in a few years?  Computer games usually go down in price over the years and it is really disheartening to me to see that Highway to the Reich is $50 just for digital download? I don't know if this price was raised, but it is a 7 year old game for $50?

Can anyone answer this?

I'm especially interested in this part.

Can anyone explain to me the reasoning behind raising the price on older games?

[bink]

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

Panther Games has already explained it - they can't get more sales because of the niche market, so they need to sell it for higher price to make the whole work and research put into the game worthwhile.

So when the AUD depreciates, does this mean that Matrix will cut the foreign prices of the game?

[Tomus]

ORIGINAL: bink

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

Panther Games has already explained it - they can't get more sales because of the niche market, so they need to sell it for higher price to make the whole work and research put into the game worthwhile.

So when the AUD depreciates, does this mean that Matrix will cut the foreign prices of the game?

I don't think the AUD has much to do with it. The game is expensive irrespective of where you are from.

[bink]

ORIGINAL: Tomus

ORIGINAL: bink

So when the AUD depreciates, does this mean that Matrix will cut the foreign prices of the game?

I don't think the AUD has much to do with it. The game is expensive irrespective of where you are from.

Actually, it does - since Panther is an Australian based developer, if pricing has been set for a target AUD unit revenue, then any depreciation in the AUD results in a price reduction in foreign markets. Conversely, if the AUD rises, the the price will rise.

Additional question for Panther/Matrix: What is the % AUD price move that triggers a repricing of the game?

[Laramie]

From what Matrix and Panther spokespersons are saying, this is a simplified breakdown of their market analysis:

1. The gaming public p
2. Wargamers new to Matrix a
3. Previous purchasers of any Matrix sims x
4. Previous purchasers of Panther sims y
5. Hardcore wargamers who purchase at ANY price z
6. Sales of BftB s

Some of these market segments are known: x and y are presumably known to the exact number.
The rest may be known but don't matter (p) but don't matter, or unknown and are critical (z).

Their marketing says Panther sims will not grow their niche or market share of (p).

They will strive to increase (a)and (z) by advertising outside of Matrix' website and forum, although that budget will be small. Marketing may have enough data from sales of WitP, HTTR, COTA, and relevant other Matrix sims to project an estimate of contribution to (s).

A reasonable estimate of the majority of (z) is obviously derived from previous Matrix (x) and Panther (y) sim purchases. This projection must be central to the market analysis, and we must assume both parties have based their plan significantly on what they believe is a robust projection of this number of essentially guaranteed sales.

What is more difficult to project other than from relevent industry stock price/volume curves is the contribution to the number of sales (s) that will stem from (x) and (y) over the long haul when the price is raised 30% or more, to $80. We see the market data coming in from the forum, where a specific number of posters say they decided to purchase, but had to make some sort of calculation of value, convenience, timing - something that says "I am not buying this without question" (I am not 'z'). We also see the data from those saying that they will wait for a sale. Matrix knows the breakdown of discount sales at each price point and can project some sales reasonably from that general data, plus the specific Panther discount sales data.

(x) and (y) must be the make or break components of the bottomline for the BftB product/pricing bet. Judging from the second wave of management blanket reassurance postings made on the various sub forums here, the percentage of previous buyers saying they are "out" may be exceeding the marketing projections. Or although it is extremely unlikely and unprecedented in the world of business, management may simply be nervous. [:)]

Personally, although am priced out unless or until a significant discount sale develops, Matrix/Panther have made a sophisticated market analysis taking these and other factors into consideration, and they are reasonably confident of a successful outcome despite our many posts. The posts themselves are valuable marketing information, except when excessive repetition dilutes the useful data and begins to require an excessive amount of time (= money) to reduce for marketing analysis.

I don't know that Matrix will release any comparative sales data, but it would surely be interesting and informative to gamers themselves to know more accurately the actual results and sales behaviors for new releases like this at aggressive prices compared to past releases.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: SuluSea
Can anyone answer this?

I'm especially interested in this part.

Can anyone explain to me the reasoning behind raising the price on older games?

We raised the price by $10 on those games over a year ago after a discussion with Panther Games to help fund the ongoing development of BFTB. We do not typically raise the price of our games over time after release, in fact I think this is the first time that has happened.

Regarding the currency questions... We set our price in US Dollars for every game. We then convert the price to other currencies based on the currency conversion rate at the time the game is released. We update all the prices in our store roughly on a quarterly basis to keep up with currency conversions. Over the last few months, the Euro and Pound have lost a fair amount of value vs. the US Dollar, which is always our base price. Therefore, customers that purchase in those currencies probably had an additional shock as the currency conversion change effectively added to the price rise.

Regards,

- Erik

[bink]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Regarding the currency questions... We set our price in US Dollars for every game. We then convert the price to other currencies based on the currency conversion rate at the time the game is released. We update all the prices in our store roughly on a quarterly basis to keep up with currency conversions. Over the last few months, the Euro and Pound have lost a fair amount of value vs. the US Dollar, which is always our base price. Therefore, customers that purchase in those currencies probably had an additional shock as the currency conversion change effectively added to the price rise.

Regards,

- Erik

Erik,

Thanks for your reply. From your statement, the fact that Panther is an Australian based developer and gets AUD revenue has no impact on your pricing, since it is set in USD, correct?

If the AUD rises, say 20%, from it's current level, it will not affect the USD pricing of the game?

[hgilmer3]

Erik,
I hope you do not feel I'm criticizing you. I just thought that was a little strange and I had previously seen you say you increased COTA to help develop the Bulge version.

From the beginning I have accepted what the price is and I have been pretty forgiving (even though I am not buying it at that price).

I think it does not do your "side" any good, though, when you have someone (not affiliated with you except as a customer) saying things like "I pay 90 AUD for most games here in Australia" when even a quick perusal of new releases on the Matrix store shows that none of the new releases are anywhere close, except for WITPAE.

This person has even claimed on another site that he paid 120 AUD for WITPAE. I find that highly suspect when right now WITPAE for the AUD$ people is even lower than BFTB. I almost want to say that if he paid 120 AUD for WITPAE then he must have done it on another site and that site probably cheated him because the DD for it right now is $87 AUD in the Matrix store.

[vonRocko]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins




We raised the price by $10 on those games over a year ago after a discussion with Panther Games to help fund the ongoing development of BFTB. We do not typically raise the price of our games over time after release, in fact I think this is the first time that has happened.

I must say that is pretty low! Despicable actually. My respect for matrix has really taken a blow. Panther games has lost my business for good. (if anyone really cares). Now this whole thing just reeks of greed and moneygrabbing.[:-]

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: bink
Thanks for your reply. From your statement, the fact that Panther is an Australian based developer and gets AUD revenue has no impact on your pricing, since it is set in USD, correct?
If the AUD rises, say 20%, from it's current level, it will not affect the USD pricing of the game?

That's correct in general. However, since Panther is in Australia, if the US Dollar were to completely tank against the Australian Dollar, since everything is received and calculated in US Dollars, it would ultimately affect them. Whether that would lead to a discussion on prices is another question, but there is nothing in how we generally do things that sets or adjusts prices based on any currency fluctuations. We do not typically adjust prices post-release.

Regards,

- Erik

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins




We raised the price by $10 on those games over a year ago after a discussion with Panther Games to help fund the ongoing development of BFTB. We do not typically raise the price of our games over time after release, in fact I think this is the first time that has happened.

I must say that is pretty low! Despicable actually. My respect for matrix has really taken a blow. Panther games has lost my business for good. (if anyone really cares). Now this whole thing just reeks of greed and moneygrabbing.[:-]

Developer tries to increase his passive income so that he can actually afford to finish the game he is working on. How despicable! They should have released it half-finished two years ago![8|]

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: vonRocko
I must say that is pretty low! Despicable actually. My respect for matrix has really taken a blow. Panther games has lost my business for good. (if anyone really cares). Now this whole thing just reeks of greed and moneygrabbing.[:-]

How is that low? Without that price increase, which was clearly communicated to customers, BFTB may not have seen the light of day. I guess I'm just not clear on how a post-release price increase, as rare as it may be (unique in this case) has anything to do with morals or ethics or despicability. The sales of COTA and HTTR were Panther's revenue stream to continue development of BFTB. That revenue stream was understandably diminished with those games being quite a ways from release. The price increase allowed development to continue and finish. The price of each product is clearly posted in the store and each customer sees it and makes a decision based on it before they purchase. I'm simply not clear on how this action caused us to lose respect in your eyes. You would rather have had HTTR and COTA stay $10 lower and have no BFTB at all?

Regards,

- Erik

[ETF]

I would have to agree with the sticker price. I am more than willing to pay that price. Items like WITP and BFTB are gems in the rough. There are a # of matrix games that are not worth 1/2 of what I paid for. The above two are certainly exceptions.

[Rebel Yell]

^^^^^^ This.

For those who think Panther Games/Matrix, or whomever, is just being greedy and trying to make a profit, I hope wherever you work will not price their goods or services to be profitable, but to make people happy. After all, they can always eliminate your job to be profitable.

[vonRocko]

Eric, I was fortunate to have httr and cota before that increase, but I have to wonder how the people who bought at the increased price feel. Too raise the price of an older game,years after its release, just seems wrong to me. I regret that last post, it is how I feel, but I should have kept it to myself. This whole thing(among other things with other companies) has left a foul taste in my mouth for the whole pc gaming industry! Matrix has been good and fair with me, so I apologize.

[vonRocko]

ORIGINAL: Rebel Yell

^^^^^^ This.

For those who think Panther Games/Matrix, or whomever, is just being greedy and trying to make a profit, I hope wherever you work will not price their goods or services to be profitable, but to make people happy. After all, they can always eliminate your job to be profitable.

Profit at any price! right? BPs' motto

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

ORIGINAL: Rebel Yell

^^^^^^ This.

For those who think Panther Games/Matrix, or whomever, is just being greedy and trying to make a profit, I hope wherever you work will not price their goods or services to be profitable, but to make people happy. After all, they can always eliminate your job to be profitable.

Profit at any price! right? BPs' motto

At what price? What happened to who because the prices of these games got raised?

Also, how are game developers supposed to operate if they aren't making profit? How should be game development funded?

[bink]

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

Panther Games has already explained it - they can't get more sales because of the niche market, so they need to sell it for higher price to make the whole work and research put into the game worthwhile.

This statement is self-fulfilling. By raising the price, their market (i.e. people willing to pay $90) becomes smaller.

It is a shame that, for a game that appears to be one of the best wargames ever, the opportunity was not taken to try to expand the size of the market by reaching out to potential customers that may have tried it at a lower price point.

[Perturabo]

Well, they already came to conclusion that they won't get more customers anyway.
I think they didn't take into account that many of their customers are casual players that don't use the games to it's full potential and therefore won't have a real reason to buy next one for 80$, though.