suggestion: controlling anomalies

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taltamir
Posts: 1290
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:51 am

suggestion: controlling anomalies

Post by taltamir »

Research anomalies are irrelevant... you get more then enough lab capacity from your starbases, you have a cap on total research based on your population (which makes lab capacity largely irrelevant). And research bases are ridiculously cheap so you could build dozens of them in your systems if you were so inclined (rather then building them in anomalies...). But you don't need to anyways since you get more then enough via star bases...

There seem that there is no benefit to controlling said anomalies.

If I may be so bold, perhaps anomalies should be claimed... where each anomaly (black hole, supernova, etc) gives a set bonus to research (ex: supernova gives a bonus of X% to weapons)... and it gives it to whomever "controls" the research there... controlling said research should require building a research base of the right kind (aka, build a weapon research lab in a supernova)... perhaps require multiple labs of different kind, perhaps require a certain minimum of research capacity to "control"... maybe either split the research bonus from such an area between all empires who are there, or not...
or maybe make a different kind of "reearch base" with a "anomaly resource module" instead of labs, which is used to unlock the bonuses of such anomalies.

controlling that +13% to weapon research black hole research site would be highly beneficial; it will make anomalies a valuable resource to be fought over... building some research bases there right now is not that useful (I have enough in my colonies)
I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman.
Astorax
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:50 pm

RE: suggestion: controlling anomalies

Post by Astorax »

Well, you are also paying a whole lot more in maintenance for all those research bases (and superfluous research labs on space ports) than I do with one (1) base at a Black Hole.

Having said that, I do like your idea and wouldn't mind that being implemented.  [;)]
taltamir
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Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:51 am

RE: suggestion: controlling anomalies

Post by taltamir »

ORIGINAL: Astorax

Well, you are also paying a whole lot more in maintenance for all those research bases (and superfluous research labs on space ports) than I do with one (1) base at a Black Hole.

true, but the AI designs the bases with those labs :P
and I tend to handicap myself by using only AI ship designs.

And its not that much more... 6 times more, tops (for black hole). But the lab base requires other extraneous components compared to extra labs on a spaceport. Furthermore, it is risky as it can be destroyed by a single attack of an enemy, is not well protected, and requires that you send a constructor ship to build (compared to just building at a colony)...
you also have to micro manage it... spaceport labs just naturally get build as the empire expand, always keeping up with capacity. But building lab bases means you get your labs in large jumps. this means you have to keep track of the amount of research and build new lab bases occasionally to ensure there is no waste.
I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman.
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Kruos
Posts: 130
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RE: suggestion: controlling anomalies

Post by Kruos »

I do agree that how anomaly boost research have to be tweaked. Actually it seems that, despite the maintenance cost maybe, there is no interest to have research lab in multiple black hole or supernova. Actually it seems preferable to find a black hole and to stack here your research stations.

I think that some tweaks should be needed to increase the interest of having multiple 'research site', to increase the strategic depht of this aspect of the game.
Research anomalies are irrelevant... you get more then enough lab capacity from your starbases, you have a cap on total research based on your population (which makes lab capacity largely irrelevant). And research bases are ridiculously cheap so you could build dozens of them in your systems if you were so inclined (rather then building them in anomalies...). But you don't need to anyways since you get more then enough via star bases...

There seem that there is no benefit to controlling said anomalies.

If I may be so bold, perhaps anomalies should be claimed... where each anomaly (black hole, supernova, etc) gives a set bonus to research (ex: supernova gives a bonus of X% to weapons)... and it gives it to whomever "controls" the research there... controlling said research should require building a research base of the right kind (aka, build a weapon research lab in a supernova)... perhaps require multiple labs of different kind, perhaps require a certain minimum of research capacity to "control"... maybe either split the research bonus from such an area between all empires who are there, or not...
or maybe make a different kind of "reearch base" with a "anomaly resource module" instead of labs, which is used to unlock the bonuses of such anomalies.

controlling that +13% to weapon research black hole research site would be highly beneficial; it will make anomalies a valuable resource to be fought over... building some research bases there right now is not that useful (I have enough in my colonies)

Sorry Taltamir, I agree with you on the diagnostic, but I dont like very much what you propose. The claming idea is not in the spirit of the game, and the dedicated anomaly bonus is not very sexy, in my opinion.


Here is my contribution to the anomaly research improvment brainstorming (maybe should the OP rename the post?), tell me what do you think :

1) Increase the research population cap for each anomaly research site
-> this way having multiple anomaly research site should have an interest

2) Reduce the lab capacity, and/or reduce the anomaly research bonus, and/or increase the population research cap.
-> this way the interest of having many research station should be increased

3) Increase the distance impact on the maintenance cost, or simply add it if it is not already the case
-> this way position of research station should have a better importance (a close station at a supernova, or a distant one at a black hole? hmm...)



This proposal is the very simple, which is good from an IA programming point of vue I think.

What do you think guys?
taltamir
Posts: 1290
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:51 am

RE: suggestion: controlling anomalies

Post by taltamir »

I am fine with brainstorming ideas.
1) Reduce the lab capacity, and/or reduce the anomaly research bonus, and/or increase the population research cap.
-> this way interest of having many research station should be increased
2) Increase the distance impact on the maintenance cost, or simply add it if it is not already the case
-> this way position of research station should have a better importance (a close station at a supernova, or a distant one at a black hole? hmm...)
3) Increase the research population cap for each anomaly research site
-> this way having multiple anomaly research site should have an interest
1. will likely work.
2. will have significant unintended consequences and require a total re-balance of the economy (again :P)... not a good idea.
3. Actually, I like that. It has a very similar effect to what I suggested though. if you control 5 anomaly sites, then you get 5xbonus, where bonus is a bonus amount to your "population cap" for research.
I guess it could be that the devil in the details... You get a bonus to total capacity of empire rather then flat bonuses to specific fields. It is more of a "having a lab in a unique location" vs a "claim said unique location" (but when I said claim I largely meant the same way you claim a system by colonizing it, or even just aggressively kill non allies who try to use the same thing)
I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman.
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Kruos
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RE: suggestion: controlling anomalies

Post by Kruos »

Argh... I edited my post to more reflect the priorities but you were faster than me! ^^
1. will likely work.
2. will have significant unintended consequences and require a total re-balance of the economy (again :P)... not a good idea.
3. Actually, I like that. It has a very similar effect. but doesn't it translate to the same thing I just said? if you control 5 anomaly sites, then you get 5xbonus, where bonus is a bonus amount to your "population cap" for research.
I guess it could be that the devil in the details... of the "having a lab in a unique location" vs a "claim said unique location" (but when I said claim I largely meant the same way you claim a system by colonizing it, or even just aggressively kill non allies who try to use the same thing)

You are right on the fact that increasing the distance impact on the cost will have a huge consequence on the eco, actually I was thinking to increase its impact only on things built at anomalies. Maybe this idea is quite difficult to realize and balance, yes.

Concerning the 'claiming', after re-reading your answer I am not sure to well understand your proposal in fact, as the way I understand it is quite different from what I proposed. Anyway, ti seems that we are pretty on the same line on the necessity to rise the population research cap, only method seems to slightly differs. :)

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Pipewrench
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RE: suggestion: controlling anomalies

Post by Pipewrench »

ORIGINAL: taltamir

controlling that +13% to weapon research black hole research site would be highly beneficial; it will make anomalies a valuable resource to be fought over... building some research bases there right now is not that useful (I have enough in my colonies)

I agree and to add that the AI should be able to handle the new "strategic resource" per say as long as it does not create a choke point where the player knows that the AI will always attack.

“We are limited only by our imagination and our will to act.”
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Astax
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 3:18 am

RE: suggestion: controlling anomalies

Post by Astax »

They would be better if the AI didn't design labs in starports. I'm too lazy to redo all starports and take out the labs :/
Canute0
Posts: 616
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:43 am
Location: Germany

RE: suggestion: controlling anomalies

Post by Canute0 »

Like Resort bases, there should be only 1 base allowed at a bonus place. Or better just 1 research station each system, but this means Labs need to to be removed from Starports.

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