Unable transfer ship between TF's

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Local Yokel
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Unable transfer ship between TF's

Post by Local Yokel »

Not sure whether this is a bug or something I'm not doing right.

This is game version 1.03.1102a, scen. 1. Date is 8 Dec 1941. On turn 1 I held the Legaspi II Invasion TF at Amami Oshima. My intention was to load I/33rd Infantry Rgt into another amphib. TF, which would then be absorbed into the Legaspi TF during turn 2. The unit was completely loaded into its own amphib. TF during turn 1. However, when trying to transfer its ships into the Legaspi TF, only 3 out of 4 are shown as being available for transfer, as the attached image shows.

The ship that won't transfer is xAKL Toten Maru, and my best guess is that she doesn't get displayed because she didn't take on any supply for the single support squad that makes up her troop load, and is thus disqualified from an amphibious TF.

Amami Oshima has a supply requirement (with only one unit left on the island) of 110, and there are 490 supplies still present. I suppose it's possible attempting to load supply into the 4-ship TF dropped the base's available supply to the point at which no more would be released for Toten Maru's troops - can't remember what this lower limit is. Whatever the reason, it's a pain to be left with a single ship and its single support squad, and not to be able to merge it into the larger Legaspi TF.

A bug, or an irritating vagary of the way bits of the code interact? If a possible bug, I have kept back a save.

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michaelm75au
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RE: Unable transfer ship between TF's

Post by michaelm75au »

Add a save just in case
Michael
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Local Yokel
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RE: Unable transfer ship between TF's

Post by Local Yokel »

Thanks for the quick response, Michael. As suggested, save attached (with spurious .zip suffix).
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michaelm75au
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RE: Unable transfer ship between TF's

Post by michaelm75au »

The Toten Maru was loaded as a "Transport" not "Amphib" mission.
If you can't transfer Amphib and Transport ships between each other.
I isolated the Toten Maru into its own Transport TF and the option to change to a Amphib TF was not present.
Michael
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Local Yokel
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RE: Unable transfer ship between TF's

Post by Local Yokel »

Thank you, Michael, I can confirm that if you try forming a new TF with a transport mission, Toten Maru is the only available AK that can be assigned to it. This is certainly consistent with this particular ship being loaded for a 'Transport' rather than for an 'Amphib.' mission.

However, this strengthens my suspicion that there may be a bug at work here.

As can be seen in the graphic in the OP, Toten Maru was clearly assigned to a TF with an amphib. mission, and should have loaded accordingly. That, after all, was the intention so that I could then merge all four ships in TF145 into the other amphib task force, TF 107, that I had kept hanging around at Amami Oshima for this purpose.

However, what seems to have happened is that whilst 3 of the 4 ships in TF 145 loaded for an amphib. mission (and so could be transferred into TF 107), the fourth, Toten Maru, instead incorrectly loaded for a transport mission.

If a ship in an amphib. TF loads in the way appropriate for a transport TF, so that it cannot then be assigned to another amphib. TF, then that looks to me like a bug. Or is there something I am missing here?
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michaelm75au
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RE: Unable transfer ship between TF's

Post by michaelm75au »

I can only check that if you have a save prior to loading TF or when the original TF was created.
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Local Yokel
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RE: Unable transfer ship between TF's

Post by Local Yokel »

To my surprise, I do still have a save from the previous turn - attached, this time for slot 26, with spurious .zip suffix as before.

Unfortunately I don't have a save at the time TF 145 had been formed, but before I had committed troops to load into it. The attached save was made just after this, so each ship has a 'nominal' troop load of one support squad per vessel, but nothing more.

Interestingly, TF 145 is consistently displayed through the interface as an amphib. TF, but during the turn when it was formed it was apparently being treated as a transport TF, since you can transfer any and all of its ships into a another transport TF, but not into an amphib. TF.

So it seems that the turn execution code has caused a partial metamorhposis of this TF, such that three of its ships have come to be treated as part of an amphib. TF, whilst the fourth, Toten Maru, is obstinately sticking to being fit for a transport TF only. And the interface seems to be telling porkies about what kind of a TF it is.
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Don Bowen
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RE: Unable transfer ship between TF's

Post by Don Bowen »

OK, long explanation follows.

All ships are annotated with the load method used at time of loading. This will be “commercial” or “combat”. A ship that is annotated as “commercial” is only eligible to move to a transport type TF and a ship that is annotated as “combat” is only eligible to more to an amphibious TF.

All fine so far, but before ships are loaded they are allocated. During the allocation process, a single “placeholder” device is loaded onto the ship. However the commercial/combat annotation is not made at this time. The indicator remains in it’s default condition, which just happens to be commercial. The failure to properly set load type during allocation is a bug and will be addressed.

In your example, the land unit being load was too small to require all four ships. It was loaded onto three, with the fourth (good old Toten Maru) having only the placeholder. So the three that actually loaded more devices were properly annotated as “combat” while Toten Maru, which was only allocated but not further loaded, was not properly annotated.

Bit of a rare circumstance.
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USSAmerica
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RE: Unable transfer ship between TF's

Post by USSAmerica »

Dang, good detective work there, Don! [&o]

I guess it helps to be able to see what's going on in the code, too.  [;)]
Mike

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treespider
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RE: Unable transfer ship between TF's

Post by treespider »

Wary Interesting....
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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Local Yokel
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RE: Unable transfer ship between TF's

Post by Local Yokel »

A comprehensive and lucid explanation - thank you, Don!
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