Distant Worlds forum thread at GalCiv2.com

[Wade1000]

Distant Worlds forum thread at GalCiv2.com

Forums\Off-topic\PC Gaming

http://forums.galciv2.com/377079/page/2/#2579385

The following was written by Taltamir, on the GalCiv2 forum; not by me.
-----

Reply #37
taltamir

Member No.2,334,181
Karma0
March 30, 2010 3:29:32 PM
the game is cool, but the lag is unbearable. it is only using 30% of cpu but its fairly choppy... as is expected with hundreds of colonizes planets and thousands of civilian ships per side flying about doing stuff.

they desperately need multi-threaded support
-----

Reply #38
taltamir

Member No.2,334,181
Karma0
March 30, 2010 11:14:59 PM
alright, i just "finished" with a sandbox game (no victory conditions)...

i did really well, making me rule 60% of the galaxy with a human monarchy... there are about a dozen single planet (or under 5) empires who sprung from independent colonies (I am definitely disabling the option for them to do that next game)... I have never started a war with anyone, I end wars quickly... later i started ending wars with the subjugate result because otherwise they keep on declaring war on me.

as it stands, everyone hates me because "we envy your colossal might and strength" and "we covet your colonies"... as a result pissant 1 colony "empires" keep on declaring war on me... not terrible, i just squash them... Nobody will make a trade agreement with me because they hate me (because they are jelous)... as such my relationship constantly deteriorate.

thing is, i got into a war with one of the two remaining big empires. (each is 1/5th my size and power). Well... they paid off the one empire that had a trade agreement with me to impose sanctions... then several of the empires with 1-5 planets only declared war on me in the space of just a few minutes due to the other big empire paying them, until that moment they kept on pestering me to impose sanctions or go to war with that empire, but now that i am they all side with it... then as a result of that my alignment got shot deep into evil (yes, your empire is judged as good or evil)... when I got judged as evil all the other pissant 1-5 colony empires declared war on me... then all my colonies started rebelling (i have members of every single race and then some special ones that jumped in from another galaxy, etc). So they are all upset i am at war with their race AND upset I am at war at all AND upset that I am "evil" (because other people keep declaring war on me, because they are jealous according to the game)

... no its not over yet... so my planets are rebelling and not paying taxes, i am attacked from every side... still not a big deal, I am still more then twice as big then everyone else in the galaxy combined and my tech is much more advanced... but then "disaster, civil war broke out"... 60 of my colonies break off to form a new empire and are at war with me!

Result? for the first time I am at war with humans so now EVERY planet I have has its morale drop into the crapper because I am not only evil, humans are all upset i am at war with other humans. So almost all my other planets are rebelling.

Yea... might want to fix that.

My solution is:

1. Slaughter small empires ASAP to avoid being labeled evil (your alignment is entirely determined by how many people you are at war with)

2. Form trade agreements EARLY before everyone hates you for being successful.

3. Disable the option in game creation that allows independent populations to ascend into being empires...



Other interesting issues:

1. taking apart captures ships for tech yields practically no tech at all... just a tiny boost to one research field chosen at random... oddly enough, even ships you find which are LOWER tech then your current level.

2. With the exception of the occasional offer to buy it for ~1.5-2.5 million (is it millions already? million x million) in cash (no financing allowed, you must have the cash on hand) races absolutely refuse to sell their starting tech.. no matter how much and what i offer them... even if i give them an awesome deal...

3. For some reason, an estranged splinter colony with no tech when it suddenly ascends to empire status will always have their racial tech... but if you colonize it and they join your empire, you don't, and it can NOT steal it with spies (it will not show up as a valid option of tech to steal).

4. laaaaaaag... god the game needs to be multithreaded.

5. RAM... i tried to reload the game, it said "error, not enough memory" and shut down.. I have 4GB of ram.

6. SLoooow... saving and loading takes minutes.

7. make sure you disable nubulae showing up in star systems in the advanced graphic options, it causes the game to stutter when zooming it (stutter is an understatement)

8. ship designs (when automated) are refreshed randomly, there is an "update" button, which requires you to click to select the ship, click it, then click "ok" in a popup box, then select the next ship... it is extremely clumsy...

a. it should automatically update all ships whenever a new tech is acquired in any way shape or form (planetary discovery, research breakthrough, trading tech, etc).

b. there should be an update all button.

c. the popup asking you to click ok is total BS.

9. The music is rather annoying, but i got used to it.

10. you cannot use the "advanced trade" menu to make trade agreements, as a result you cannot ever improve your relationship with other empires once you start dominating (because they are jealous).

11. if someone offers you a trade, you must accept immediately if you are interested, you cannot go into advanced trade and then accept (because they will suddenly not like it)

12. be careful not to accidently choose to leave ruins unexplored, they will be forever unexploreable.

13. it should really have a more serious notification when enemy spies manage to cause a revolution changing your system of government, I didn't even notice for a while that i was turned into fuedalism from way of ancients. (there was actually no harmful effects of switching back because way of ancients is so superior to feudalism).



All that being said, the game is pretty awesome. It definitely lacks polish, but it probably the best implementation of the 4x janre in space right now.



Just an FYI, my machine is an intel C2Q 9400 with 4GB of ram and an nvidia GTX260 in cast anyone wonders.



EDIT: I found a solution of sorts...

1. get lucky and find "way of the ancients"... it is really really good.

2. kill lots of pirates. Every pirate base you destroy gives you a good amount of positive reputation. Morale improves across the empire and other empires ask you for trade agreements etc.

[fabio80mi]

Nasty.. a thread i hope the devs will look closely.
From my experience (from mostly smaller games) i found out that is very hard to make friend with someone that hates you.... bribes and gift seems not to work for me.

[Gertjan]

But at least you can keep them from going to war without you. Having lots of trade with them helps as well.

[ASHBERY76]

ORIGINAL: fabio80mi

Nasty.. a thread i hope the devs will look closely.
From my experience (from mostly smaller games) i found out that is very hard to make friend with someone that hates you.... bribes and gift seems not to work for me.

Are you using 1.2.The release version had a bug with gifts.

[Flaviusx]

Establish free trade with everybody you run into immediately and don't let things slide. Throw whatever goodies you need to make this happen. (+20 or so relations seems to be about the point where you can get a free trade agreement going.) Pick and choose your opposition don't wait until they all gang up on you. The guy in this thread just totally mismanaged the diplomatic end of the game. It can be handled even if you are very strong and disliked for it.

Also, during wartime you may need to change governments. The more economically efficient governments are bad for war weariness and planetary revolts will cripple them. And try to incorporate races in your empire with bonuses for this (like the bugs.)

Edit: the most efficient way to get other races to love you is tech. Give it to them on the cheap or even free when you first meet them. If you have a racial tech that by itself will move the approval rating where it needs to be. Cash gifts don't seem nearly as effective.

[Journier]

yea, I have to agree with some of those points.

Most especially Multithreading.

a game this large can only go so far without multithreading.

Funny thing is another game that is similar in style in some ways is Hearts of Iron 3 (HOI 3).
HOI 3 had all automation capable for all area's just like distant worlds. But HOI 3 added so much stuff like that, that without multithreading the game ran so terribly slow compared to HOI 2 that those of us used to playing HOI 2 thought it was unbearable.

I doubt Multithreading will come into Distant Worlds, unless dev's say otherwise however. You really need to plan it out at the start. However their are programs that convert code to multi threading capable made by Intel IIRC.

Why games still arent made that are this immense without multithread support is sorta disheartening.[:o]

Multithreading has been around on servers for a very long time, Consumer's have had cpu's capable of them since 2006ish generally.

#2- Wars, creating evil empire, civil war and general failure

I had this happen in a smaller game I was playing. I went to war with 1 empire who kept threatening me.

I move in with my fleet and begin kicking their ass taking colonies.

Then i have to refuel my fleet and cant end the war very soon, Suddenly another empire declares war on me.

Then Another, and another, and another, till the whole galaxy is at war with me.

Then I got a civil war... But thats not even the funniest part. 5 minutes after the first civil war broke out, I GOT A SECOND CIVIL WAR....

WHAT THE.....

Thats some weird game mechanic action there.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Journier
Most especially Multithreading.
a game this large can only go so far without multithreading.

Sorry to contradict you, but Distant Worlds does multi-thread actually and is multi-core aware. It does not use the other cores for everything though, so sometimes you will see just one core being actively used.

Based on what the poster there described, I think he may have some other performance issues going on as DW can run pretty smoothly on much less hardware than a modern system has.

[Erik Rutins]

I should add that we read that original post as well and are taking his comments into account.

[fflaguna]

ORIGINAL: Journier

yea, I have to agree with some of those points.

Most especially Multithreading.

a game this large can only go so far without multithreading.

Funny thing is another game that is similar in style in some ways is Hearts of Iron 3 (HOI 3).
HOI 3 had all automation capable for all area's just like distant worlds. But HOI 3 added so much stuff like that, that without multithreading the game ran so terribly slow compared to HOI 2 that those of us used to playing HOI 2 thought it was unbearable.

Problem is HoI3 was released a full 6-8 months before it SHOULD have been... that was the WORST release product I have EVER played, bar none. I will NOT be buying a Paradox game at release ever again. The game is still buggy, and even though patch 1.4 is around the corner, the devs are still holding back in general for their expansion pack...

Paradox must either run on a shoestring budget where they have trouble gathering capital, or else they are run by idiots that think releasing a crappy product and patching later is preferable to fixing first and releasing a reliable product later... just look at Blizzard. Do you expect to find ANY bugs in their upcoming releases?

[Journier]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Journier
Most especially Multithreading.
a game this large can only go so far without multithreading.

Sorry to contradict you, but Distant Worlds does multi-thread actually and is multi-core aware. It does not use the other cores for everything though, so sometimes you will see just one core being actively used.

Based on what the poster there described, I think he may have some other performance issues going on as DW can run pretty smoothly on much less hardware than a modern system has.

Ive only seen your game touch 30-35% of core useage on my quad core cpu. I knew of your game being multicore aware but....

image of core use in largest game with 19 AI's all old etc etc


Also, To FFLAGUNA-

The story I heard with Paradox and HOI 3 coming out the way it did is this.

They began the game trying to make it all multithreading capable etc, however they ran into so many problems with integration from I assume a group of programmers that have been at Paradox for a long time IE Johan, and never really got alot of practice for multithreading before begining on HOI 3. Well 6+ months into the project they scrapped the whole thing and said forget it and it became what HOI 3 is today. This is the story I heard from someone that was supposedly in the know. But thats a entirely different game [;)]

[Wade1000]

That post quoted in the original post was writen by Taltamir on the GalCiv2.com forum; not by be.

[Mad Russian]

ORIGINAL: fflaguna

Problem is HoI3 was released a full 6-8 months before it SHOULD have been... that was the WORST release product I have EVER played, bar none. I will NOT be buying a Paradox game at release ever again. The game is still buggy, and even though patch 1.4 is around the corner, the devs are still holding back in general for their expansion pack...

No, that would have been HOI 1 where they made me pay to be a beta tester for them. I've never bought another game from them after that. I came here and have been here since then.

Paradox must either run on a shoestring budget where they have trouble gathering capital, or else they are run by idiots that think releasing a crappy product and patching later is preferable to fixing first and releasing a reliable product later... just look at Blizzard. Do you expect to find ANY bugs in their upcoming releases?

I don't know what Paradox does or doesn't have but this game was patched within HOURS of release to kill a single bug. That's what I call support.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Janster]

Hearts of Iron is an extremly complicated game made with no a fraction of the resources that went into Mass Effect 2, its a lot to demand that these games are to be 100% from the start. This game seems to suffer from exactly the same problems, and will require extensive patching before a good idea can turn into a playable one.

Paradox has a dedicated track record of fixing their games, and getting it right eventually, Hoi 3 just got patch 1,4 which finally gets things right I believe.

[Ranbir]

Is there an assumption all four cores need to be maxing out?

[Kamonrius]

Hmm My computer is a pitance to the one described ATI1200x integrated 4gb laptop Vista 32 Amd turion 2 Core duo, 2 years old, and I do not have this unbearable lag I keep hearing about settings, are maxed me thinks and I play currently a 1400 star system (or so) I scroll in and out better than the pre release DW vids and have yet to have a CTD but the empire mechanics described are a worry for me as empires do get pissed for no reason when your large..thing is mine worked..fine? smaller empires kept giving me money, even those who hated me. some kept asking for trade agreements..I guess I've yet to reach the strenght of the poster in question Give DW some time if continuing on the track in a sense it can only get BETTAR!

[BigJ62]

Your machine appears to be balancing the load across all four cores and in particular not greater than 25% of total according to your screenshot.

ORIGINAL: Journier

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Journier
Most especially Multithreading.
a game this large can only go so far without multithreading.

Sorry to contradict you, but Distant Worlds does multi-thread actually and is multi-core aware. It does not use the other cores for everything though, so sometimes you will see just one core being actively used.

Based on what the poster there described, I think he may have some other performance issues going on as DW can run pretty smoothly on much less hardware than a modern system has.

Ive only seen your game touch 30-35% of core useage on my quad core cpu. I knew of your game being multicore aware but....

image of core use in largest game with 19 AI's all old etc etc


Also, To FFLAGUNA-

The story I heard with Paradox and HOI 3 coming out the way it did is this.

They began the game trying to make it all multithreading capable etc, however they ran into so many problems with integration from I assume a group of programmers that have been at Paradox for a long time IE Johan, and never really got alot of practice for multithreading before begining on HOI 3. Well 6+ months into the project they scrapped the whole thing and said forget it and it became what HOI 3 is today. This is the story I heard from someone that was supposedly in the know. But thats a entirely different game [;)]

[BigJ62]

My machine not running DW.

[BigJ62]

Running DW.

[Mad Russian]

ORIGINAL: Janster

Hearts of Iron is an extremly complicated game made with no a fraction of the resources that went into Mass Effect 2, its a lot to demand that these games are to be 100% from the start. This game seems to suffer from exactly the same problems, and will require extensive patching before a good idea can turn into a playable one.

Paradox has a dedicated track record of fixing their games, and getting it right eventually, Hoi 3 just got patch 1,4 which finally gets things right I believe.

Really? I bought HOI 1 and it was full of bugs. They have since sold HOI 2 and 3, for money, not patches but new buggy games. Where in there have they fixed HOI 1 that I was a beta tester for?

No thanks. I've not bought a Paradox game since then.

If DW goes down that same path, which it doesn't seem to be I'll not buy from this developer again either.

It's my money and I get to vote. Now enough about Paradox and back to playing DW.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Gertjan]

Cool to see those pictures of the core activity. I need to get more than 2 cores