Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: The German-Soviet War 1941-1945 is a turn-based World War II strategy game stretching across the entire Eastern Front. Gamers can engage in an epic campaign, including division-sized battles with realistic and historical terrain, weather, orders of battle, logistics and combat results.

The critically and fan-acclaimed Eastern Front mega-game Gary Grigsby’s War in the East just got bigger and better with Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: Don to the Danube! This expansion to the award-winning War in the East comes with a wide array of later war scenarios ranging from short but intense 6 turn bouts like the Battle for Kharkov (1942) to immense 37-turn engagements taking place across multiple nations like Drama on the Danube (Summer 1944 – Spring 1945).

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Capt Cliff
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Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by Capt Cliff »

Who goes first for the turns? Always the German?? Is there an initative system where the first player switiches as a function of commander success or what ever. This allows back to back turns which might help exploit a successful defence.
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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by Helpless »

Who goes first for the turns? Always the German??

Anyone set in editor. Mainly depends on scenario. If scenario starts with Soviet offensive (ex. Uranus) they move first.
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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by kfmiller41 »

I am guessing that means that if the soviet starts the game going first then they move first on every turn, correct?
 
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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by elmo3 »

ORIGINAL: miller41

I am guessing that means that if the soviet starts the game going first then they move first on every turn, correct?

Yup.
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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by ComradeP »

Which in turn also means that in a full "June 1941 to the bitter end" campaign, the Axis always go first?
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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by elmo3 »

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Which in turn also means that in a full "June 1941 to the bitter end" campaign, the Axis always go first?

Yup.
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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by Helpless »

I am guessing that means that if the soviet starts the game going first then they move first on every turn, correct?

No. The turn ends after Soviet move - the first German move is on turn 2 then.
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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by Helpless »

Probably I misread the initial question. You can set who will move first in the Game (Campaign). But otherwise German player moves first in the turn.
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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by elmo3 »

ORIGINAL: Helpless

No. The turn ends after Soviet move - the first German move is on turn 2 then.

Well then I stand corrected.
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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by kfmiller41 »

Well i am confused now[:D] Only one side enters moves and combat at a time right? So the german always has the initiative in the campaign game, meaning they always plot moves and have their combat before the russian player?

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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by PyleDriver »

No not at all. The Soviet can move and resolve combat on their first turn. Then it goes to turn two and the German responds. Btw theres no plotting in the game as in WIR. Units can move and attack and move and attack as long as theres enough MP's...I will say though that the defender has some auto reactions, reserves commited to the battle, and air intrerdiction of units moving...
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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by kfmiller41 »

ok, feel much better now[&o]
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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by Capt Cliff »

No ... I am still confused as to what happens. So on turn 1 the German moves and attacks then the Soviet moves and attacks, turn 2 the German moves and attacks then the Soviet moves and attacks, turn 3 ... etc. till May 7, 1945. The German is always the first player who moves and fights each turn. At no time does the initiative switch allowing the Soviet player to move and shoot first?

An initative system would add "sauce for the goose". Which is why I prefer a WEGO system like in the World at War series. IGOUGO system is too much like the old board/chit games of the past. But WITE is a IGOUGO so be it, but an iniative system would be nice.
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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by elmo3 »

Their is no initiative system.  If the Axis moves first on turn 1 they move first every turn after that.  In some scenarios the Soviets will move first so there is no German first turn in those.  At the start of turn 2 and beyond the Axis moves first.
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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by PyleDriver »

Well I can tell you once the first winter hits you'll wish, as the Axis player, the Soviets didn't get the initiative. It is a long gruling experence...Initiative in this game is who has the power, and where do they put it...
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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by ComradeP »

Well I can tell you once the first winter hits you'll wish, as the Axis player, the Soviets didn't get the initiative. It is a long gruling experence...Initiative in this game is who has the power, and where do they put it...

...but according to the statements above, they don't get the initiative, as the Axis always move first in a June 22 1941 >end scenario and presumably in, say, a Typhoon scenario too.

This is getting confusing: first there are posts describing how the Axis always start first if the scenario starts with an Axis first turn, and now you're describing how the Axis player will wish the Soviets don't get the initiative in the winter.
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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by Captain B »

Comrade P,

let me try to clarify...initiative and who moves first are quite different. Initiative for one side can be read as the side being on the offensive because they have superior numbers, firepower, better leaders, terrain, etc. That is differrent from who goes first.

As with most other IGOUGO games, it appears that you can set up a scenario in which turn one starts with the 2nd player (UGO) and every subsequent turn will then be IGOUGO. In other words, a scenario starting with the soviet counter attack in the winter of 41 would start with turn 1 with the soviets, turn two German than Soviets, and every turn thereafter till the end of the scenario.

Hope I haven't muddled the water further...the fog of war is muddled enough!

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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by ComradeP »

I probably took PyleDriver's statement a bit too literally.

There are some wargames where initiative effects who starts the turn, or where initiative is basically a random number deciding who goes first. I recall TOAW having somewhat random initiative/turn starts.

I'm used to playing IGOUGO wargames where the turn sequence doesn't change, so the WitE system won't take a lot of time to get used to in terms of the turn sequence I guess. On the other hand, the rest of the game will take a lot of getting used to.
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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by Capitaine »

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

I probably took PyleDriver's statement a bit too literally.

There are some wargames where initiative effects who starts the turn, or where initiative is basically a random number deciding who goes first. I recall TOAW having somewhat random initiative/turn starts.

I'm used to playing IGOUGO wargames where the turn sequence doesn't change, so the WitE system won't take a lot of time to get used to in terms of the turn sequence I guess. On the other hand, the rest of the game will take a lot of getting used to.

Norm Koger liked this "changing initiative" mechanic, which he also used in "Age of Rifles" (which I've recently been playing). It served to give a side two moves in a row sometimes, which simulated some kind of initiative, I guess. I don't really like it that much. Aside from that mechanic, though, once the first side moves, it matters not who goes first and who goes second thereafter, as the turn henceforward always alternates between the sides and there's no further advantage to going first the rest of the way. It's appropriate that the initiator of the action (i.e., the Nazis in Barbarossa) moves first, but the way the technical turn begins and ends is rather immaterial to the future course of action.
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RE: Who goes first, German or Soviet?

Post by elmo3 »

The Gamers has the double move initiative in the Operational Combat Series which can make for some interesting strategy.
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