Hunting the Hibiki: Q-Ball (Allies) v Cuttlefish (Japan)

[ny59giants]

CAP - 30 to 50%
Training 10 to 30%
Rest - usually 20%
Fill up squadron to max or very close with pilots.
Let them gain experience and hopefully will be more than cannon folder before they are thrown to the wolves.
 
CV based TB/DB - Naval Attack/Rest with 30% training if new pilots.
 
This how I'm starting out and may adjust as time goes by.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

CAP - 30 to 50%
Training 10 to 30%
Rest - usually 20%
Fill up squadron to max or very close with pilots.
Let them gain experience and hopefully will be more than cannon folder before they are thrown to the wolves.

CV based TB/DB - Naval Attack/Rest with 30% training if new pilots.

This how I'm starting out and may adjust as time goes by.

Sounds about right. Do you put rookies into front-line units though and "train on the job?" I haven't been, I tend to have training units behind the front (either actual "training" units, or just units set to 100% training), maxed out on pilots, and when they reach a certain level move them to general pool. For Front-Line units , I always select veterans from the Pool. There is no harm in training if there is no action around, and if they were set to 10% training at the front, they can still round out skills; but I don't want rookies at the front.

And I will say I have been micromanaging this ALOT more as Japan.

[ny59giants]

I've taken the plunge into the deep end of the pool without a life preserver. [:D] My PBEM is more OJT right now as I learn how painful an omission of a micro-management step can be. I haven't refined how to work out the pilots training program. Most have gone into units. Since I lost so many Vals and Kates from a 2 day attack on Pearl, I've had no choice. Zeros are golden. [:)]
 
I have one daitai (sorry but a word I use from WITP days) that has 5 with experience over 80. Would you put any of them and others into the training command??

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I've taken the plunge into the deep end of the pool without a life preserver. [:D] My PBEM is more OJT right now as I learn how painful an omission of a micro-management step can be. I haven't refined how to work out the pilots training program. Most have gone into units. Since I lost so many Vals and Kates from a 2 day attack on Pearl, I've had no choice. Zeros are golden. [:)]

I have one daitai (sorry but a word I use from WITP days) that has 5 with experience over 80. Would you put any of them and others into the training command??

I have yet to detect a big difference from putting pilots in TRACOM. I think it does help to have one or two really good pilots in units that are training, so it does make sense to "store" some for that purpose later, for On-Map training.

Here are some Japanese Training things I do:

1. Consider the Home Island restricted units as TRAINING units. You can't officially make them so, but that's what they really are. Rotate their best pilots into the Reserve pool, and re-fill with Rookies. Right from Day 1, I would send, for example, all pilots from that 36-plane Kate Daitai that starts in Yokosuka (I think); they are 70+ experience, and you need them as replacements for KB probably within the first month, if not like RIGHT NOW. Re-fill that unit with rookies and set to train. You can cram 48 pilots in that unit, you might as well; and "upgrade" it to Jeans while you are at it.

2. You get one or two unrestricted VAL units in the beginning, particularly a 3-plane Chutai in China (I think?). Load that unit onto Ryujo, set to resize, then fill it with pilots and start training. You can get 38 pilots in it that way. Or if you really feel like it, unload all the planes from Shokaku, load it on for a turn at Resize, make it a TRAINING unit officially.....and you can train 128 pilots at once (it will resize to a 64-plane unit). That's a bit extreme, just telling you what you can do.

Get in the habit of checking units that are training every few days, and sending any with skills of 70-ish into the General Pool for later. There is a delay before they are available, so start that when they are ready.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I've taken the plunge into the deep end of the pool without a life preserver. [:D] My PBEM is more OJT right now as I learn how painful an omission of a micro-management step can be. I haven't refined how to work out the pilots training program. Most have gone into units. Since I lost so many Vals and Kates from a 2 day attack on Pearl, I've had no choice. Zeros are golden. [:)]

I have one daitai (sorry but a word I use from WITP days) that has 5 with experience over 80. Would you put any of them and others into the training command??

I have yet to detect a big difference from putting pilots in TRACOM. I think it does help to have one or two really good pilots in units that are training, so it does make sense to "store" some for that purpose later, for On-Map training.

Here are some Japanese Training things I do:

1. Consider the Home Island restricted units as TRAINING units. You can't officially make them so, but that's what they really are. Rotate their best pilots into the Reserve pool, and re-fill with Rookies. Right from Day 1, I would send, for example, all pilots from that 36-plane Kate Daitai that starts in Yokosuka (I think); they are 70+ experience, and you need them as replacements for KB probably within the first month, if not like RIGHT NOW. Re-fill that unit with rookies and set to train. You can cram 48 pilots in that unit, you might as well; and "upgrade" it to Jeans while you are at it.

2. You get one or two unrestricted VAL units in the beginning, particularly a 3-plane Chutai in China (I think?). Load that unit onto Ryujo, set to resize, then fill it with pilots and start training. You can get 38 pilots in it that way. Or if you really feel like it, unload all the planes from Shokaku, load it on for a turn at Resize, make it a TRAINING unit officially.....and you can train 128 pilots at once (it will resize to a 64-plane unit). That's a bit extreme, just telling you what you can do.

Get in the habit of checking units that are training every few days, and sending any with skills of 70-ish into the General Pool for later. There is a delay before they are available, so start that when they are ready.

Q-Ball, what you wrote here is golden. I think that's some of the best advice I've seen yet. I never thought of reloading the 36 plane Kate Daitai with rookies. *Slaps self on head* I can't wait for my next turn to do that. How many vets will you keep in the unit when you do that?

Couple of questions for you. I noticed when you train units (specific training, not general training), their specific skill goes up as does defense and, rarely, others. The experience level rarely goes up. Granted I've been playing my AAR only a couple of game weeks, but what does it mean to have a TB pilot with a high NavT skill and low experience? Seems odd to me. Also, when you pull the pilots out into the general pool with 70-ish skill, exactly what skill are you talking about? Lastly, when you over stock a unit with pilots, do they all train at the same rate as a unit with the number of pilots = the number of planes?

Thanks!

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Q-Ball, what you wrote here is golden. I think that's some of the best advice I've seen yet. I never thought of reloading the 36 plane Kate Daitai with rookies. *Slaps self on head* I can't wait for my next turn to do that. How many vets will you keep in the unit when you do that?

Just one or two. The other 46 guys are fresh from flight school, and ready to learn how to drop Torpedos!

A couple vets seems to help the rate of advanced training. But no point in "storing" other pilots there, as they are high skill accross the board, and won't gain much if anything by training.

Couple of questions for you. I noticed when you train units (specific training, not general training), their specific skill goes up as does defense and, rarely, others. The experience level rarely goes up. Granted I've been playing my AAR only a couple of game weeks, but what does it mean to have a TB pilot with a high NavT skill and low experience?

I asked around about this awhile ago. Per Elf, "Experience" relates to how well a pilot recovers fatigue and morale. It has nothing to do with your ability to hit a ship with a torpedo; that is "NavT". "Defn" is your skill in not getting shot down.

I have found the same thing after training; you end up with low experience pilots, but they are OK at hitting a ship with a torpedo. Not much you can do, experience doesn't really go up in training, and that's really what you lose when that first Cadre is killed off.

The only way around this really is to send high-experience pilots from transport or recon units into the pool, select them into a torp training unit, and re-train them to drop torpedos. No reason you can't do that; a good way to keep KB up to snuff at least until that 2nd cadre is killed off!

Also, when you pull the pilots out into the general pool with 70-ish skill, exactly what skill are you talking about?

The primary skill I need, be it NavT, or Air. Generally, they train very slow past 70 it seems, or not at all. So no point in keeping them in a training unit, unless it's another skill, like NavB (which isn't a bad idea for Kate pilots, you don't always have a torpedo handy)

Lastly, when you over stock a unit with pilots, do they all train at the same rate as a unit with the number of pilots = the number of planes?

Yes, they seem to. In fact, I have seen pilots train in a unit with 1 or 2 planes fairly well. Classroom training, I guess?[&:]

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I have found the same thing after training; you end up with low experience pilots, but they are OK at hitting a ship with a torpedo. Not much you can do, experience doesn't really go up in training, and that's really what you lose when that first Cadre is killed off.

That makes a lot of sense. Pretty clever of the devs, whether intentional or not.

Thanks a lot Q-Ball. You've enlightened me. I think I'm finally beginning to understand the whole pilot pool thing. Sorry for doing this in your AAR.

[d0mbo]

If i may, one quick question.
If you leave 2 veteran pilots in a daitai, and the rest rookies, does that really train faster than an all rookie daitai?
 
That seems very logical, but is it really represented in game. If so: has someone calculated what the difference is?
 
Aorry for the hijack :X
 
 

[FatR]

Flying CAP seems to increase experience even without actual combat, to an extent.

[ny59giants]

Thanks for the insight Brad. [:)]

[pacificbetta]

If you leave 2 veteran pilots in a daitai, and the rest rookies, does that really train faster than an all rookie daitai?

That seems very logical, but is it really represented in game. If so: has someone calculated what the difference is?

I read somewhere that a trainee that has "below average" exerience/skill in the squadron will do better in training. Hence I think it is good to have some experienced pilots to raise the average and allow the bulk of the trainee to train faster. How exactly does one go about it is another story.

I did notice some strange things in my test runs on training, some trainee will experience "breakthroughs". I did rather extensive testings on a 10 day run for 35 XP pilots. While the bulk of them get 1.5-2 skill/XP increase per skill, a few went up by 10-15! I have yet to discover a pattern behind that, but it seems that we have some sort of "critical success" rolls in the pilot trainee program.

[Q-Ball]

October 31, 1942

Happy virtual Halloween!

Night Action off Waingapu: I got my night action off Waingapu! It wasn't a bloody as I had hoped, but still a victory for the Royal Navy.

CF sent a TF of Nagara and 6 DDs, to toast what he thought were a couple unloading transports. Instead, he ran into 4 R-Class BBs, and an escort of 4 RN DDs. The IJN ships successfully dodged a number of 15-in salvos, but we did land a hit on Nagara and a DD. Both were sunk the following day by SBDs out of Waingapu. The only damage on our side was a moderately damaged RN DD, that will live but need a trip to the yard.

Promise of Action: Daybreak found KB in a tempting position. I breifly considered attacking with all my CVs, as I could provide LRCAP from all my bases. But on the other hand, my TBF pilots are green, and I am due for some AA upgrades, so I have decided to fight another day instead. At some point with all my reinforcements on the horizon, I will seek battle with KB, but not quite yet.........

What I am doing though is packing all my airbases within 7 hexes of KB with SBDs and fighters. I pulled the airgroups off 2 USN CVs to augment the Marines, and mixed in some P-40Ks. Everyone is set to launch tommorow, about 250 planes in all.

I expect the result to be ALOT of shot-down allied planes. What I hope though is that I take some Zeros with me, but more important plant a bomb or two in a couple CVs. If I can do that, I can even the odds for a straight-up battle. At this point, KB outnumbers me. I also now have adequate replacements for all my CV planes, so if he shoots down 100 tommorow, I can replace them pretty easily. Not sure if this is going to work, but it's only planes, so why not?

[Laxplayer]

Pilots in "training" with a specific type of training (or general) selected will train up in the selected skill, plus defense (or all of them, if general training is selected). They will only rarely gain EXP.

HOWEVER... if you assign them to a mission, then up the training level and CAP or Search or ASW with the arrow buttons... For example, if you select ESCORT mission for fighters in a rear area base, then set CAP at say 30% and training at 50%, they WILL gain EXP, because they are flying combat missions. They will also gain Air skill and Defense skill. You can do the same with bombers by setting them to NavSearch or ASW missions for 30% or so, then upping their training level to 50%.

My method with all the Kingfisher sqdns as the allies was to set to train at 80%-100% training, with ASW-specific training selected. Once they got to 50-60+ ASW skill, I would switch to a naval attack mission, and up the training level and ASW levels to 40% each. In this way, they would gain ASW very quickly. Then I could start building up their LowNav bombing skills and EXP level while continuing to train ASW and actually look for subs all at the same time.

[Q-Ball]

Nov 1, 1942

Celebes Turkey Shoot: Last turn, I had set about 250 planes to attack KB. They did all right; and ran straight into a 167-plane Zero Cap buzzsaw. The carnage was extreme, though somehow we did manage to get 5 bomb hits on CVs.

Our planes were Wildcats, SBDs, P-40Ks, P-38s, B-25s, and 4Es out of Koepang. They attacked in groups, the largest being 90 planes, and another of 62 planes. We lost a total of 135 aircraft! 3 bombs and fires were reported on Junyo, and 2 bombs/fires on Kaga. All in All, not exactly what I was looking for.

We won't be doing that again anytime particularly soon. And given the damage to the 5 groups from CVs, we need to pull the CVs back to replenish planes and train TBFs. While we are at it, will probably get our AA upgrades as well.

Can I maintain the area without CVs? We will find out. I am strong on the groud, and have significant LBA. I think we will have a stalemate, which is OK.

Burma: Let's change the subject to something more pleasant; Burma. Things are rolling here, and still only 3 units in Lashio as we approach. Check out the map below:

[Mike Solli]

Q-Ball, what damage do you estimate you did to KB's air groups?

[Chickenboy]

Sounds like this was almost exactly what you said you were hoping for in post #572. Moderately more casualties on your part, but you were successful in your aims, no? So you don't consider the playing field more 'level' for a CV on CV battle now?

[crsutton]

No, Three bombs on Junyo might sink her and the other carrier is going to be in the yard for four to six months. In six months his carriers will start to be redundant. Hurts to lose the aircraft but you can afford the trade. I would have done the same.

[FatR]

If the combat report shows only "on fire" sinking or extremely long repairs are not very likely. These are not light carriers, anyway, without fuel/ammunition storage explosions they are not going down from that.

[fflaguna]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Nov 1, 1942

Celebes Turkey Shoot: Last turn, I had set about 250 planes to attack KB. They did all right; and ran straight into a 167-plane Zero Cap buzzsaw. The carnage was extreme, though somehow we did manage to get 5 bomb hits on CVs.

Our planes were Wildcats, SBDs, P-40Ks, P-38s, B-25s, and 4Es out of Koepang. They attacked in groups, the largest being 90 planes, and another of 62 planes. We lost a total of 135 aircraft! 3 bombs and fires were reported on Junyo, and 2 bombs/fires on Kaga. All in All, not exactly what I was looking for.

And how many Zeros ended up damaged/whatever according to FOW? I read Cuttlefish's AAR post (Q-ball should not click on this link) on the matter, so I already know the right answer.

[crsutton]

Well, it depends on if they were 500 pound bombs of 1,000. Junyo is basically a light carrier and very fragile. Three heavy bombs will hurt her seriously. Japanese ships are more fragile in AE. The heavy carrier is going to survive but two bomb hits will ensure maybe 30 sys, 30 flotation and some engine damage. Sometimes more. That is a long time in the yard. I will take the bomb hits as time works against the Japanese and the major objective for the Allied player is to hurt a few Japanese carriers in preparation for the  big carrier fight that has to come.