Supply and production questions.

[JWW]

About to play my first game. Did the tutorials, video and in-game. Read the rule book. Read supply and production twice. Still confused about supply and production. Wondering if someone can point me toward a good thread in this forum to help me or if someone can give me a brief synopsis of how supply and production work, i.e., "Supply and Production for Idiots." Note that I intend to play the Confederacy.

I'm also considering playing my first game with the computer controlling my production, which someone had suggested in one thread I read. I assume I could let the computer do my production and then look at what it did each turn to get an idea of what is going on. I seem to have a better handle on how movement and combat work. Any thoughts on that suggestion?

[JWW]

I'm going to bump this up.  I've started my second game, and my first where I'm controlling production.  Although I vaguely see it, I still don't fully understand the relationship between production and supply.  I've also tried to read everything in the forum regarding production and supply.  Apparently the balancing act is that if I build more units such as artillery, etc., then I have less capability of building supply units.  That means less capability of doing things like building depots and fortifications and the such, and it also means fewer militia units will be created.  It also could result in unsupplied units if I don't have sufficient supply points.  So the balancing act is how many units to build vs how much production to devote to supply. Is that basically correct?  If not, then I'm lost.  So, anyone have some quick pointers on this issue?

[runyan99]

I think that is about it.

[Joel Billings]

You've got the basic idea. In addition, you have the ability to expand your factories. Thus you can make an early game tradeoff of less supplies at start, and more later on when the factories come online. This is pretty important for the CSA, otherwise they will have major supply problems later in the war. Even the Union side can gain from investing in their economy by building factories.

[JWW]

Thanks. My first game I played CSA and let the computer control my production and watched what it did. I don't think it built any factories. I watched what the computer produced and how well I was able to use what it produced, and noted my late-game supply problems. I won the game, but mainly because the Union AI was not aggressive enough.

This time I bumped up the difficulty and have already seen a more aggressive AI, and I started based on some recommendations on the forum with some factory builds and heavy artillery and a little of this and that. Initially I put too much into production and created an initial supply problem in the early months but have now backed off and balanced things out. It will be interesting to see what happens when those factories I have come on line. I'm in Jan 62 in my second game.

And like I said, the AI is much more aggressive, especially in the West. I've also got to remember to scout more, since I was playing without FOW in my first game.

[Capt Cliff]

A pointer for the CSA ... build new or epand factories away from the sea coast. It keeps them out of the reach of the Federal Navy. You'll eventually end up eating your shoes but you might put it off for a few turns.

[JWW]

Thanks. I read that advice in another thread an remembered it.

[dodd1]

I am currently playing my first game as the Union. It is March 1863 and I am running out of supply. The supply table states I have around 750 supply and that I am paying 400 for troop maintenance yet I am not gaining supply but gradualy losing it. I have probably built about 50 artillery and a whole lot of ships. It is only when I only build supply and nothing else that the situation gets better. Is there anythig I can do to remedy the situation?

[Treefrog]

Let us start with an admonition that I am not very good with supply; read on at your own risk.

None of the circumstances you mention (fifty artillery, building lots of ships and 400 supply costs per turn) is unusual for the USA in 1863.

If you have 750 supply to start any reaction phase in 1863 you are, IMHO, doing very well (certainly better than I've ever done in my roughly dozen PBEM games). Supply will diminish over time, especially if you didn't build factories early in the game and your army is substantially larger than July 1861. You don't have a problem until you can't build or can't supply existing units.

Classic economics: either use less supply or create more supply.

You "use" supply when building new units, combining damaged units, building depots, building forts, or supplying existing units. You also "use" supply when the CSA raids your depots or their pirates do their thing in AO2.

You create supply with foreign trade, with your factories, and when you successfully raid CSA depots.

[dodd1]

Treefrog thanks for your quick reply. I didnt mention that I was starting to have problems building depots. I think my previous liberal building of forts contributed to the issue. The CSA seems to be able to cause a considerable amount of supply damage in area A02 even though I have had a fleet there from the start. Currently I have 7 criusers in A02 but still they are causing considerable amounts of supply damage each turn. Is there anything else I can do to counter this?

[Leibst]

Hi dodd1,
I give you a tip, when i have problems with supplies with the union and i cant build depots because my supplies is 0 i build them in the reaction phase or in the production phase i dont remember which of them but in that moment you have some supplies.

Leibst

[Treefrog]

Dodd1,

Yes, the pirates in AO2 can be devastating on two counts: they reduce your foreign trade/supply and they increase their PPs. Even if they get only an average of 1 PP per turn, by the end of the war that is the equivalent of a major seaport such as Wilmington or Charleston or New Orleans. Ouch.

I generally build max cruisers on the first turn and deploy them all to AO2 with the best leaders available, including the first naval leader with a CR of 7 or more, and a full complement of subordinates. Until the problem is in hand I usually have no less than 8 and most likely 10 cruisers up there. They typically kill, on average, almost one pirate per turn and get the problem quickly under control. By 1863 there is typically no more than one pirate up there (although currently I am fighting two pirates in Dec 1863).

Leibst is correct; you can build your depots in phases other than the movement phase. I often exhaust my supplies on mounted creation and railroad repair during the movement phase and build depots and/or forts during the building phase, which is after the foreign trade influx.

Note: if you are so marginal on your supply, you should probably develop the habit of checking the supply status of your units as the first order of business in any turn, including the reaction phase. Do this with the hot key "shift u". Areas with unsupplied units will show "dark"; you have to look closely for the river areas. If you activate the side bar the top box is supply. If it is zero, you have run out of supply and have none immediately available to issue your troops until you either (1) capture CSA supplies [not a likely option] or (2) receive foreign trade. Lack of supply increases possibility of attrition loss and is a -3 combat modifier to attackers and defenders, so you want to avoid that. If you have no supply, destroy a depot, which will get you 20 supply immediately. You can distribute those supplies to troops moving into combat during the reaction movement phase. Other troops may be supplied through foraging or hope they'll get some before the next attrition and/or combat phase they are subject to.

Supply is critical in this game (second only to the effect of leadership). Because most simulations have a relatively simple approach (you are in supply or out) most wargamers don't automatically give it serious thought. In GGWBTS one cannot ignore supply.

What may be flying under your radar is the constant supply loss due to CSA cavalry raiders. This happens two ways. The obvious way is a result of a raid on your depot "capture 3 supply, destroy 47 supply" , or whatever comes up. The less obvious is if the raiders destroy the railroads that typically are the basis for supply to most units on both sides. The result of that raid is basically "Wheeler destroys railroad" repeated twice. If you look, the supply cost for the region goes from "1" to "2" or more. This can also happen when your units rely upon sea transport and your transports move away, leaving your units without a LOC. This means your supply cost has at least doubled and perhaps gone up more than that. This loss can be crippling if you have an army of 50 factors of infantry/cavalry and their supply cost doubled and you didn't even notice (there is no warning of this increase in supply cost beyond the "railroad destroyed" notice and, of course, the rapid depletion of your supplies).

[Capt Cliff]

How many depots do you have on the map? The Union should have about 6 and they should be destroyed as the Union moves south and new ones built. The South may not need any unless your planning a Gettysburg type campaign. When you destroy a depot the supply goes back into the hopper.