Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by 06 Maestro »

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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by littleike »

The idea of create addons for simulation programs (tipically fligt simulation programs) is
not new. If someone has played MS Flight simulator he will surely know the amount of
specifically aircraft mods and cockpits on the market with prices much more than 8 dollars
each.

Obviously many of theese aircraft addons were true simulations in the simulation, with real
instruments, check lists, flight models,and superdetailed components,for real training.
Recently Digital combat simulator seems to have inaugurated this sell policy with their
simulator Black shark and the announce of subsequent integrations to the program with new
jets (A10, Flanker ...) to purchase separately.

I don't think from the screenshoots i have seen that rise of flight will be in this range
of products;( I can be wrong naturally, i don't know the product, but my impression from the screenshot is that)
i think it seems in the range of products like lock on or strike fighter with good models, good graphic,
a decent campaign, maybe good multiplayer mode, but essentially games, not simulators.

Said that i seem that sell new aircraft also for few dollars in a program like that is a commercial way to gain more money from the user..

Speaking of the sell strategy i like the idea to pay for extensions of a program if these really improve the simulation or add consistent benefits for the user like new campaigns or specific manual printed documentation. I have a lot of splendid games with whom i would have been very happy to pay a subscription for their maintenance and improvement if it would have been possible; i think to gems like Falcon4, F15 strike eagle, F18, European air war (that i can no more play on my nvidia pc), DID for who know that F22 simulation.

On the wargames side, (like recent witp AE), games with years of developement and tuning, i really liked the idea, after the necessary time of game stabilization to subscribe an annual fee with the guarantee to have a product always at his best,without the stress of begin everytime to start from scratch with a new game.

I think that this policy could be the best for the serious gamer and the serious software. A standard price for the purchase, a less price for the annual subscription for maintenance and improvements. A potential separate price for important addons like printed specific strategic manuals, charts etc etc.

The only thing i could never bear is the delivery of software protected by internet activation mechanisms or starforce like drivers.
The method of Matrix with the choice of digital download and/or copy expedition with a user code is without doubt the best for me.




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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by Lützow »

ORIGINAL: littleike

The idea of create addons for simulation programs (tipically fligt simulation programs) is
not new. If someone has played MS Flight simulator he will surely know the amount of
specifically aircraft mods and cockpits on the market with prices much more than 8 dollars
each.

That's hardly comparable, because these addons are often high-quality programs which turn the MS Flightsimulator into a semi-professionell simulation with stunning visuals. The learning curve of a single aircraft can last longer than the whole life-spawn of your average full price game.
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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by killroyishere »

Has anyone else noticed this micro-pricing in the gaming industry?

I don't know if you are aware of Battlefront and it's new CMx2 series of Combat Mission that all future creations will be "modules" at a cost of around $25-$35 for each nation or battle areas. I believe CMSF came in 3 modules, the origional, the marines and now Britian units. To me it's just squeezing the teets of consumers to get every ounce of a dollar they can get out of them. Whereas the origional Combat Mission came in complete sets of the Western Theater, Eastern Theater and North Africa Theater for about $35 each. I bought all of those but very much doubt I will buy more than one module which will be the hopefully upcoming Normandy area of battle. Then one module of the eastern front when it comes and then one module of the Africa campaign.
So, I've definitely noticed this movement to micro-pricing in gaming. It supposedly yields more money for the developers and publishers but looking at the whole perspective I just don't think it offers enough to spend $35 just to get a handful of different equipment/vehicles to use.
Bethesda did it with Oblivion also as there are several $2 and up addons for it out there.
I didn't see enough of a difference in CMSF over the origional Combat Mission series myself though to warrant rebuying everything again. I enjoy Combat Mission orgional series just fine and Panzer Command:Kharkov
Is it the best? no, but HOI3, has buyable sprites.

Yes it was nice when Direct 2 Drive had that HOI III + Sprite Pak sale for $8.45 a few weeks ago. Don't mind paying that for a full game and sprite paks.[:D]
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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by GoodGuy »

ORIGINAL: littleike

The idea of create addons for simulation programs (tipically fligt simulation programs) is
not new
. If someone has played MS Flight simulator he will surely know the amount of
specifically aircraft mods and cockpits on the market with prices much more than 8 dollars
each.

Obviously many of theese aircraft addons were true simulations in the simulation, with real
instruments, check lists, flight models,and superdetailed components,for real training.
Recently Digital combat simulator seems to have inaugurated this sell policy with their
simulator Black shark and the announce of subsequent integrations to the program with new
jets (A10, Flanker ...) to purchase separately.

Well, right, the basic idea is not new. Quite some of the products you probably had in mind (like the 3rd-party MS FlightSim add-ons, additional huge airports for FS versions before FSX, scenery disks using sat images, new flight models + missions, etc.) rather resemble expansions, as the creation of the content required many man-hours and/or acquisition of licenses or digital images.
If actual developers, or 3rd-party devs, then decide to charge for such "add-ons", I'd be with them.
I'm not with them if it comes to "booster packs", where such approaches rather look like the devs just attempt to put their greedy hands in your wallet, even though you put out enough money for the (main) product, already.
Said that i seem that sell new aircraft also for few dollars in a program like that is a commercial way to gain more money from the user..

Well, yes it is. But with the case above (Add-ons for MS FlightSim), it's justified to charge for such an add-on, as it involves major efforts from the developers. You can't compare that to the game mentioned by Slick.
Also, I wouldn't feel like buying such a game (with limited content), as I'd rather expect FULL (a variety of content, different planes, worlds, missions, whatever) content along with a full-price tag, without being "forced" to invest money in numerous add-ons which may add up to way over 100 bucks, or maybe even more. There are enough publishers who offer FULL content for some 30-60 bucks, so I'll stick with them.
Falcon4, F15 strike eagle, F18, European air war (that i can no more play on my nvidia pc), DID for who know that F22 simulation.

I'd also add DI's Tornado, a true simulation and a gem. I still have European Air War, but I never liked the terrain textures, due to the pretty pixelated ground textures, which made ground strikes less enjoyable for me, let alone the difficulty to estimate your plane's altitude during low level flights - without you having to check the instrument every few secs.

You can still play EAW on NVIDIA cards, check this out:

http://eaw.wikispaces.com/7217+Error-a+fix

http://eaw.wikispaces.com/EAW+7217+erro ... +solutions

You can also "downgrade" to a somewhat older NVIDIA driver, in order to play EAW with an NVIDIA card:

http://eaw.wikispaces.com/nVidia+driver ... ility+list
The only thing i could never bear is the delivery of software protected by internet activation mechanisms or starforce like drivers.
The method of Matrix with the choice of digital download and/or copy expedition with a user code is without doubt the best for me.

I own one game with online activation, as I really liked the demo - so I couldn't hold my horses. This game features an online activation system, where you have to license the game online, and you have to unlicense (and uninstall) it before you can install it on another computer (IIRC, you can obtain an offline license too (email?)). There was never a working illegal copy of this particular game floating around, until several DD distributors started to sell them and offer somewhat different versions of patches for the game, which made it possible to mix the versions and ship around the protection. I'd consider this to be a rather rare and embarrassing accident (for the publisher) or coincidence, though. Still, these protection schemes are less effective than you might think.
Outside of niche-markets, widely popular games attract a whole army of crackers (well, they are not hackers, right? [:)]) who try to beat a protection scheme. So, in fact, such online-activations only secure games (thus sales) that focus on online-multiplayer content, as single-player games usually either don't need an activation or can be cracked by good crackers (even steam-games had been cracked), or games targeting a niche market - because these don't attract top-crackers. These guys' egos demand large audiences.

I could accept online activations, if there were NO limitations regarding the number of installs (eg. some schemes allow for 5 installations only, if you change your hardware and reformat several times, you'll have used up the allowed amount of activations quickly), means if some of these activations wouldn't turn your game into a rental game, actually.
I decided not to buy any game from the publisher using that activation scheme I mentioned above, solely because of the lack of game content (too few missions, some bugs, AI misbehabiours), not because of the online-activation, as this particular one is a less restrictive one, afaik.

Except for publishers like Matrix, you'll see the online-activation thing growing each year, and you'll also see more and more online-content offered for offline games (which won't be for free), as the publishers THINK that is the only effective way to keep a certain level of sales figures and/or to keep people interested in the base game.

I could see one tiny benefit there, let's get back to EA as example:
EA (and let's say UBIsoft) might be willing to move away from their strict patch policies (usually 1-2 patches only, sometimes even none for titles with rather low sales)
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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by GoodGuy »

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

Yes it was nice when Direct 2 Drive had that HOI III + Sprite Pak sale for $8.45 a few weeks ago. Don't mind paying that for a full game and sprite paks.[:D]

HOI III + Sprite Pack was actually $60 something, while HOI III was $7.99 .
Also, the Direct2Drive-server detected my European (German) IP, and redirected me to their UK server, where HOI (without Sprite-Pack) was around 30-40 bucks. I had to gather some long and cryptic URL in the source code, to get to the US server and HOI III for 7.99, LOL. [:D] Oh well, HOI III is $29.95 now, and the pack 3.95 [8|]
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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by Fallschirmjager »

That game looks interesting for a indie developer and I might even consider a purchase since I have long wanted a modern WW1 flight sim. I do not even mind the expansion module. However I feel the planes being parceled out at that price does not justify the amount of content received. In WW1 planes were so close in performance that that the addition of a few dozen HP often made a crucial difference. It would be impossible to convince me that enough time and effort goes into each plane to justify $7.50 each. WW1 planes feel largely the same. It is not the same as flying a F-16 in one sim and a Mig-29. Those are completly different animals.
Even a light nimble British fighter and a heavier sturdier German fighter feel alike enough that the price tag is too high.
I would be willing to buy the planes in 3 packs for $7.50. But not 1 apiece.

But this is a title I will keep an eye on. I really want a WW1 sim.
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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by GoodGuy »

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

That game looks interesting for a indie developer and I might even consider a purchase since I have long wanted a modern WW1 flight sim. I do not even mind the expansion module. However I feel the planes being parceled out at that price does not justify the amount of content received. In WW1 planes were so close in performance that that the addition of a few dozen HP often made a crucial difference. It would be impossible to convince me that enough time and effort goes into each plane to justify $7.50 each.
Even a light nimble British fighter and a heavier sturdier German fighter feel alike enough that the price tag is too high.
I would be willing to buy the planes in 3 packs for $7.50. But not 1 apiece.

Well, did you ever fly a Sopwith Camel in a flight sim? Do a nose dive with full throttle and you'll know what I mean [:D] (the plane may disintegrate). It was also pretty agile, but only if the pilot performed left-turns (propeller rotated counter-clockwise). When the Camel stalled, it had a tendency to spin endlessly. The wings of the Nieuport 17 used to break, if the pilot put the plane to its limits. Now, compare this to the Red Baron's triplane, and you'll have completely different flight characteristics. WWI-planes may have less differences at first glance, but there were many designs, eg. the German designs were ranging from the gracile Fokker Eindecker (1915) to the sophisticated Dr.I (triplane), so I'd say your statement is rather a generalization and doesn't do justice to the different WWI planes.

I understand one point, though, where you suspect that the rather primitive controls and flight characteristics of WWI planes (compared to more modern planes), and the implementation of them in a game, won't involve much effort on the dev's side, so that it doesn't justify that price model. On the other hand, maybe the devs DID do their homework and researched characteristics of flying replicas, maybe they even flew in some of them (at least as passengers)? What do you know about what amount of work had been put into the product?
I, for one wouldn't comment on the technical side of things, means on implementation of flight characteristics, before I'd have had my hands on the game/sim.
If I'd have infos about the number of missions, etc, means about the (re)play value, I'd only comment on the content/price ratio. At first glance, 8 bucks to fly one additional plane (full-price games like the Falcon series, Apache sims, etc. come to my mind), in ADDITION to the 4 planes of the main game isn't exactly a rip-off, IF these 4 planes aren't those "flying bathtubs" from 1914.
ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

The other aircraft are in the game, flown by the AI, but to fly them yourself you must purchase them at the developer's store...for about $8 American. Doing the math, you can see that the investment to play this sim is going to be multiple hundreds of dollars, just for the software.

I think that's a silly calculation. There are 12 (!) additional planes you can purchase. 12 x 5.45 Euros = 65.4 Euros ($ 93.76). The main game costs 39.99 Euros ($57.33).
In Europe, you pick a main game from a major publisher, plus 1 or 2 expansions, and you'll get to around the same amount. I doubt everyone would get all planes.... I wouldn't get each and every plane, at least.

There's a German fan website, they are playing WWI sims since 1998 (Red Baron II + 3D), and it seems like they moved over to Rise of Flight. It says a lot, if die-hard Red Baron 3D-fans pick up that game.

http://www.homedrome.de/Einsatzgebiete/ ... fault.aspx
ORIGINAL: IGN review
"But as impressive as the overall visuals and flying are, the campaign system and plane roster just feel more than a little anemic. When compared to the wide range of content in games like IL-2 Sturmovik or Fighter Ace 3.5, it's hard to feel that Rise of Flight is holding back a bit too much, especially for forty bucks."
http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/100/1002055p2.html

EDIT: I just read that you have to be online to play the game?
If that's true, and if I'd have bought the game, I'd be pissy, hehe!.
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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by Greybriar »

SecuROM is promoting Microtransactions and DLC so it must be a good thing, right? [;)]
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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by Lützow »

Rise of Flight was unplayable for me due to the oversensitive control and lack of an accordingly profile for the HOTAS X52 Flightstick. Whoever considers a purchase should look into the demo first, in order to avoid later frustration.
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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by JudgeDredd »

4 planes in the base game at £24 is absolutely fine. There is nothing wrong with that price model at all.

The extra planes are take them or leave them. End of. Jeez...are we just getting greedy in our old age? Developers have lives and need to make money. They need to make more money than they spend so they can make profit. Profit is what keeps them making games.

If the developer isn't worth supporting fine...don't buy their stuff. If they are, then buy. If you have the money for additional content then fine buy that too.

We seem to have stuck with Neoqb and their model for the moment...so I don't get it. You have an apparently great World War I sim (of which there are apparently very few). You have four planes packaged in that product. What exactly is the big deal? So they made more aircraft and priced them...buy them or don't buy them - it's a simple choice. To suggest that they should package all WWI planes into the initial release is ludicrous and whilst no-one has specifically suggested that yet, I suspect there are some that wouldn't be happy unless they did.

Some people are so damned tight!

Combat Mission Shock Force came with 2 modules and, as far as I remember they were $24.99 - that worked out about £15 for me. They are well worth that price. They had new equipment, new maps, new scenarios and new campaigns. What exactly do people want for £15 nowadays!

I genuinely get the impression when I see discussions like this develop that people think devs are over paid. If a developer makes alot of money for his product it's because he's got his market right. He's identified the market and given people what they want at the price they want. Course with people like you lot around wanting a World War I flight sime with 10+ aircraft in it, and a Combat Mission Shock Force with US, Marines, British troops, German troops, and Afghanistan and Iraq campaign for $35 and then you'd probably wait till it hit the bargain bin, it's no wonder devs are trying to work out how to maximise their profit from their hard work.

Do the devs (who deserve it) and your hobby a favour and support it and stop whining that something cost $5 more than it should even though you picked it up for $6!
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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by JudgeDredd »

Now that I've said all that - I'll go and put my doll back in it's pram!
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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by SlickWilhelm »

ORIGINAL: Lützow

Rise of Flight was unplayable for me due to the oversensitive control and lack of an accordingly profile for the HOTAS X52 Flightstick. Whoever considers a purchase should look into the demo first, in order to avoid later frustration.

Lutzow,

I don't know when you tried RoF, but the 1.009 patch introduced an axis adjustment tool so that you can adjust the sensitivity of your control axis.
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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by SlickWilhelm »

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy


It was also pretty agile, but only if the pilot performed left-turns (propeller rotated counter-clockwise).

Sorry to pick on you, GoodGuy, but the Camel was better at right-hand turns, not left. Just trying to keep the record straight. [:)]


I think that's a silly calculation. There are 12 (!) additional planes you can purchase. 12 x 5.45 Euros = 65.4 Euros ($ 93.76). The main game costs 39.99 Euros ($57.33).

It's only a silly calculation if you assume that development of additional WWI planes for RoF ceases right now. Due to the seemingly strong popularity of the game from the die-hard WWI junkies, I assumed that there will eventually be 20+ planes available for purchase, hence my "multiple hundreds of dollars" comment.

EDIT: I just read that you have to be online to play the game?
If that's true, and if I'd have bought the game, I'd be pissy, hehe!.

Yes, you do need to have an active internet connection to play. But since many of the people flying RoF right now are going online to participate in live human vs. human missions, we would be online anyway.
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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by Lützow »

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

Lutzow,

I don't know when you tried RoF, but the 1.009 patch introduced an axis adjustment tool so that you can adjust the sensitivity of your control axis.

Some time ago. Might give it another try, considering they patched the demo to 1.09.

The east european development scene is mixed bag, lots of crap and mediocre stuff but also some gems. Kinda similiar circumstances like the western market had 10-15 years ago, before everything got 'streamlined' here. However, our Russian friends have a preference for rigid copy protection schemes and seem to learn fast in terms of western business models. I acquired DCS Black Shark earlier this year but hesitated to install it on my main rig due to star force protection. Now Neobq came with online activation and pulled out micro addons instead of fixing first what they already got payed for.

That's an attitude customers usually don't value and while big players as EA unfortunately can get away with this kind of 'policy' nowadays, small indie studios, still in need of building their reputation, should rather refrain from it.
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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by Hard Sarge »

you guys got me interested, I am a flight sim nut (besides all the other stuff)

but looking at the demo, makes me wonder, before I even try it (only good for 3 days, and was about to go to bed when I seen it, so didn't want to waste the first day)

but, why only include the Spad XIII in the demo

greesh, of all the planes to give you a few for the game, that is the last one you should want to pick (well, VII may be a worse one, but...)

the only real lead sled of WWI, it is no dogfighter, it is a Boom and Zoom plane all the way (in a time, when people didn't think about Booming and Zooming)

so, if this plane is nimble, the flight model is no good, and how do you get a feel for the flight model, with a plane that is not a good dogfighter

(also funny, the 4 planes that come with the game if you buy it, all of them are poor turning planes, the D.VII may be the best overall plane of the bunch, but it was more a fast plane, then a plane that could dance)

(per the Camel, the engine toque was so bad, you almost couldn't make a left handed turn, odd fact, the Camel shot down more enemy planes then any other Allied plane made/flown during the war, but, more pilots were killed trying to learn how to fly it, then it shot down enemy planes, makes you wonder)

I seen one of the patches added the bip switch (not sure if they meant overall, or just for the S.E.5a) so at least the company is trying to match the flight model of these planes

pricing, well, it may be the case of how much money they had to start with, this is what they could afford to include, and still have a chance to not go under by doing so, if the player base likes and buys the game, they could afford to keep doing the work, to make the add on's

but... who knows

so, anybody have any feel for the flight model in the game ???
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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by GoodGuy »

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

Sorry to pick on you, GoodGuy, but the Camel was better at right-hand turns, not left. Just trying to keep the record straight. [:)]

Picking on me? Nah :) Correct, right-hand turns. Well, I flew "my" last Camel back in the 90s, so I must've mixed it up. [:)]
It's only a silly calculation if you assume that development of additional WWI planes for RoF ceases right now. Due to the seemingly strong popularity of the game from the die-hard WWI junkies, I assumed that there will eventually be 20+ planes available for purchase, hence my "multiple hundreds of dollars" comment.

Well, thing is, with their current set of 12 planes for purchase, they already picked 90% of the major players during WWI's aerial warfare, including armed recon planes like the German "Pfalz" types, which were less capable. They could add one bomber for each side (like the German "Gotha" bomber, or the French bomber), maybe even the German all-metal prototype J-2 (iron sheets). Although one or another request has been made for it in their forum, I still doubt that many people would want to fly an inferior Fokker E.I (Eindecker), let alone the two-seater recon planes (with either rear or front gunner), though, so that may shorten the list. There'll be a monoplane with update 1.010, it seems, the Fokker D.VIII (E.V).

I'm with Judge here, their pricing strat isn't necessarily a rip-off. IF it helps to finance further improvements for the software and further development of add-ons, this type of marketing may have a right to exist - just like other models.

I just wonder what planes are included in the main game?
I could imagine that these are the rather weak planes like Albatros, etc, no?
If so, than this would be kinda like neo is giving the customers a fix with the base game (with weak planes, doh), just to get even more money with some superior add-on planes, and I wouldn't support that.

I, for one tend to prefer games where a full-price covers a range of types/vehicles in a game. On the other hand, like Judge said, noone forces the customer to buy all planes, so, as a customer, it comes down to your own ability to hold your horses and watch your wallet.
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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by Hard Sarge »

from the site for the upgrade to the full game, planes that come with it are, the D.VII, the D.V, the N.28 and the Spad XIII

(as I said, all are not known for being dancers, the 28 may be the best of the dancers, but it was so weak, the French wouldn't even fly it, gave it to the Yanks to find out how easy it was to break a wing)

I wonder about the statement on the E.1 ?, is that based on the plane, or how other games have modeled it (remember, it was the E.1 that was used for the Immelmann turn (which is not what we know a Immelmann now to be) more what we would call a wingover, but you needed a good plane, with good controls to perform

the E.1 was a good plane (the first of the Forker scruges, the D.II is the better known, for what it did in Bloody April) in fact, most games make it a pure dog, but it was based on a stunt plane, odd, that they would make it a plane that can't dance, when it was a early dancer (slow, lightly armmed, but it could stunt)
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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by killroyishere »

Just an FYI I believe Red Baron 3D is onsale at GOG.com for $9.99 so those that think this game is too expensive can get that one instead and everyone is happy.[:'(]
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RE: Is micro-pricing the wave of the future in gaming?

Post by Hard Sarge »

oh well, you talked me into it

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