AE's Most Dangerous Feature
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- Canoerebel
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AE's Most Dangerous Feature
If you have carrier TFs off somewhere and send a replenishment TF toward them with orders to follow a carrier TF, beware! In an effort to allow the replenishment TF to rendezvous and carry out the follow orders, the computer sometimes/often/always? makes the carrier TFs act very strangely, slowing them down considerably. You may *think* your carriers will move at missions speed toward some target or away from some danger when, in fact, they will slow down.
I've had this happen in both the Guad Scenario (against the AI) and in a PBEM Scenario Two. In the latter instance, I had just complete (or so I thought) a big carrier raid on Java. I set the Allied carriers to retire at mission speed. To my surprise, they moved just a hex or two the following day - actually the following several days as we are playing two-day turns. This should have been disastrous as I figured my opponent would load up Java's airfields with LBA. (I got lucky, though, because he didn't have base forces available to handle LBA, I think).
The only thing I can figure is that I had an AO TF coming from the south set to follow the lead CV TF. This is the only thing that could have monkeyed with carrier movement and it could've cost me five CVs.
Beware!
I've had this happen in both the Guad Scenario (against the AI) and in a PBEM Scenario Two. In the latter instance, I had just complete (or so I thought) a big carrier raid on Java. I set the Allied carriers to retire at mission speed. To my surprise, they moved just a hex or two the following day - actually the following several days as we are playing two-day turns. This should have been disastrous as I figured my opponent would load up Java's airfields with LBA. (I got lucky, though, because he didn't have base forces available to handle LBA, I think).
The only thing I can figure is that I had an AO TF coming from the south set to follow the lead CV TF. This is the only thing that could have monkeyed with carrier movement and it could've cost me five CVs.
Beware!
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
Actually I prefer to park my AO TFs on some island, literally under the guns of the garrison and have the CVs meet them there. I had a similar problem with 2 Cargo TFs, one of which nearly ran out of gas. So I wanted to merge them but both basically took ages to come together for resupply. My guess is that TFs move at the speed of the slower of the two to meet at a predetermined hex.
RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
per the manual, if a TF has a follow order (TF A Follow TF B) then the followed TF (B in this example) will slow to half speed until the follower (A in this example) catches up.
The best way to have replinshment TFs fuel and then follow is to create a "Meet" order and specify that the replinshment follows with an offset thereafter; check it when it finally catches the carriers and re-establish the meet order. That way the carrier TF is never impacted by the following replinishment TF
The best way to have replinshment TFs fuel and then follow is to create a "Meet" order and specify that the replinshment follows with an offset thereafter; check it when it finally catches the carriers and re-establish the meet order. That way the carrier TF is never impacted by the following replinishment TF
RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
Having a slow TF follow a fast TF will ALWAYS cause the leading TF to slow down until the following TF gets within the prescribed follow distance.
To have a replenishment TF rendezvous with a fast carrier TF you may wish to use either waypoint/refuel or meet/refuel.
If you want to set up an at-sea gas station, move the replenishment TF to some convenient at-sea hex and select remain on station. Then route the carrier TF to that location in some way. Either manually with remain on station and do the fueling manually or use waypoints with the refuel option, Which ever works best.
You can also use the meet/refuel option for a single refueling. I think this may also cause slowing of the carrier TF to accomplish the meet. Meeting is quite complex and how it is handled depends on which TF is closer to the destination of the "met" TF.
- Canoerebel
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RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
My carriers moved normally once I cancelled the "follow TF" orders for the AO TF. So, indeed that was what caused my CV TFs to move so slowly. I was fortunate to avoid annhiliation.
I understand the rationale behind what's going on, but I will say that it is counter-intuitive. Many, many, many players will get stung by this feature for that reason. Most every player will have to run afoul of this once or twice before catching on. Newbs will always be at a disadvantage.
It's counterintuitive because a player who had his carriers in harm's way and ordered them to leave at mission or flank speed would naturally think they would do so and that their speed wouldn't be influenced by a "Follow TF" order issued to some other TF, especially when that other TF was far away and so unimportant you didn't even think about it when issuing orders.
I understand the rationale behind what's going on, but I will say that it is counter-intuitive. Many, many, many players will get stung by this feature for that reason. Most every player will have to run afoul of this once or twice before catching on. Newbs will always be at a disadvantage.
It's counterintuitive because a player who had his carriers in harm's way and ordered them to leave at mission or flank speed would naturally think they would do so and that their speed wouldn't be influenced by a "Follow TF" order issued to some other TF, especially when that other TF was far away and so unimportant you didn't even think about it when issuing orders.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
I would point out that the player has issued the follow orders and (optionally) specified a follow distance. Were the game NOT to obey these orders it would not be acceptable.
RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
The follow command seems pretty useful for protecting invasions too.
It's just a double edged sword: "Ya'll be careful out there!"
It's just a double edged sword: "Ya'll be careful out there!"
Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home
- Chickenboy
- Posts: 24520
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:30 pm
- Location: San Antonio, TX
RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
Canorebel,
Thanks for pointing out that potential issue to users.
For myself, I would say that AE's Most Dangerous Feature is its sheer addictiveness. It's awful. I can't get enough, but yet I'm getting too much. Unfortunately, this is one feature that just gets worse the more I delve into the game...
HELP!!!
Thanks for pointing out that potential issue to users.
For myself, I would say that AE's Most Dangerous Feature is its sheer addictiveness. It's awful. I can't get enough, but yet I'm getting too much. Unfortunately, this is one feature that just gets worse the more I delve into the game...
HELP!!!
RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
ORIGINAL: witpqs
The follow command seems pretty useful for protecting invasions too.
It's just a double edged sword: "Ya'll be careful out there!"
Totally agree with this.
The "meet TF" and "follow TF" are of great use, but are also not the "be all and end all" in naval movement. There are big pros and cons to both of them.
I personally only use the "meet TF" option if the respective Task Forces are assigned to meet in a relatively safe location. (i.e.- away from LBA or Carrier Air, also enemy SCTF)
"Are you going to come quietly, or do I have to use earplugs?"
- Spike Milligan
- Spike Milligan
RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
Don't refuel in a combat zone. Withdraw everyone way out of harms way (especially LBA's) to a given island or anchorage & do it there. Don't do it at sea unless in exceptional circumstances (it's not very efficient & you are a sitting target for subs)
- rattovolante
- Posts: 188
- Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:28 am
- Location: Italy
RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
Having a slow TF follow a fast TF will ALWAYS cause the leading TF to slow down until the following TF gets within the prescribed follow distance.
Don, it might not be working as intended - at least I don't think it's working on a hex per hex movement basis (what I mean is that a TF waits for the following TF to be within the specified distance before moving in a new hex).
This happened to me in my PBeM (hartwig please don't click on link yet ): upfiles/32702/957A3EAEF73848EAB63B8C52DD1692A1.gif
I'm pretty sure I had every TF set to follow at 0 distance. Note how in that case the transport TFs could have been catched completely unescorted.
RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
Agreed, I've had issues as well with the last patch. I've had CAG meet up with Amphib which was waiting. Then I move the Amphib and the CAG sits there the first turn and the Amphib gets whacked. The CAG will move the 2nd turn .... really hurts. I had to set up my staging area farther back to account for this.
Pax
RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
The most dangerous feature...
The fact that it grabs your attention and causes you to ignore certain people who probably should not be ignored. [;)]
The fact that it grabs your attention and causes you to ignore certain people who probably should not be ignored. [;)]
Distant Worlds Fan
'When in doubt...attack!'
'When in doubt...attack!'
RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
ORIGINAL: Shark7
The most dangerous feature...
The fact that it grabs your attention and causes you to ignore certain people who probably should not be ignored. [;)]
I will second that !
" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley
RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
ORIGINAL: Shark7
The most dangerous feature...
The fact that it grabs your attention and causes you to ignore certain people who probably should not be ignored. [;)]
And the congregation (or at least that part paying attention!) replied... AMEN!!!!!
"Action springs not from thought, but from a readiness for responsibility.” ― Dietrich Bonhoeffer
RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
ORIGINAL: RevRick
ORIGINAL: Shark7
The most dangerous feature...
The fact that it grabs your attention and causes you to ignore certain people who probably should not be ignored. [;)]
And the congregation (or at least that part paying attention!) replied... AMEN!!!!!
Hate to break this to you Rev, but they don't actually have to be paying attention to get the AMENs in. A well trained congregant can do the AMENing, "and also with you", "thanks be to God", or whatever other liturgical niceties apply from instinct, while contemplating the day's football matchup, the state of their 401K, etc.
Sad but true.
Related to the phenomena that if you ask in a Children's Message who is playing quarterback for the Vikings you'll likely get "Jesus!" and when told that's not right "God!" It's all a matter of training.
-
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 11:02 am
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RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
The same phenomena is related to the "Yes Dear" answer men give wives when they are watching football or playing AE. Unfortunately my wife has learned of this and used it to her benefit. I am now taking out the trash, doing the dishes and taking a massage class......ORIGINAL: erstad
ORIGINAL: RevRick
ORIGINAL: Shark7
The most dangerous feature...
The fact that it grabs your attention and causes you to ignore certain people who probably should not be ignored. [;)]
And the congregation (or at least that part paying attention!) replied... AMEN!!!!!
Hate to break this to you Rev, but they don't actually have to be paying attention to get the AMENs in. A well trained congregant can do the AMENing, "and also with you", "thanks be to God", or whatever other liturgical niceties apply from instinct, while contemplating the day's football matchup, the state of their 401K, etc.
Sad but true.
Related to the phenomena that if you ask in a Children's Message who is playing quarterback for the Vikings you'll likely get "Jesus!" and when told that's not right "God!" It's all a matter of training.
- BrucePowers
- Posts: 12090
- Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:13 pm
RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
The massage class doesn't sound bad[:D]
For what we are about to receive, may we be truly thankful.
Lieutenant Bush - Captain Horatio Hornblower by C S Forester
Lieutenant Bush - Captain Horatio Hornblower by C S Forester
RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
ORIGINAL: rockmedic109
The same phenomena is related to the "Yes Dear" answer men give wives when they are watching football or playing AE. Unfortunately my wife has learned of this and used it to her benefit. I am now taking out the trash, doing the dishes and taking a massage class......ORIGINAL: erstad
ORIGINAL: RevRick
And the congregation (or at least that part paying attention!) replied... AMEN!!!!!
Hate to break this to you Rev, but they don't actually have to be paying attention to get the AMENs in. A well trained congregant can do the AMENing, "and also with you", "thanks be to God", or whatever other liturgical niceties apply from instinct, while contemplating the day's football matchup, the state of their 401K, etc.
Sad but true.
Related to the phenomena that if you ask in a Children's Message who is playing quarterback for the Vikings you'll likely get "Jesus!" and when told that's not right "God!" It's all a matter of training.
I'm surprised she hasn't asked you for a new pair of shoes while you are playing AE. Of course, do they ever really ask before they buy them anyway? Hmmm...[:D]
Distant Worlds Fan
'When in doubt...attack!'
'When in doubt...attack!'
-
- Posts: 8500
- Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2002 8:39 am
- Location: Olympia, WA
RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature
ORIGINAL: erstad
ORIGINAL: RevRick
ORIGINAL: Shark7
The most dangerous feature...
The fact that it grabs your attention and causes you to ignore certain people who probably should not be ignored. [;)]
And the congregation (or at least that part paying attention!) replied... AMEN!!!!!
Hate to break this to you Rev, but they don't actually have to be paying attention to get the AMENs in. A well trained congregant can do the AMENing, "and also with you", "thanks be to God", or whatever other liturgical niceties apply from instinct, while contemplating the day's football matchup, the state of their 401K, etc.
Sad but true.
Related to the phenomena that if you ask in a Children's Message who is playing quarterback for the Vikings you'll likely get "Jesus!" and when told that's not right "God!" It's all a matter of training.
Yep... I stopped attending church on a regular basis after the Episcopal Church changed the prayer book in the mid-'70's. Before they changed it, I could follow along with the service in my sleep. Afterwards, I felt lost...
fair winds,
Brad
Brad