World war 2 historical ship losses
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
- hellfirejet
- Posts: 1052
- Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:53 pm
- Location: Scotland
World war 2 historical ship losses
Australia = 3 Cruisers, 4 Destroyers,2 Submarines total = 9
Canada = 6 Destroyers,11 Escorts total =17
Germany= 4 Battleships, 7 Cruisers, 44 Destroyers,785 Submarines total = 840
Greece = 3 Cruisers, 4 Destroyers, 4 Submarines total = 10
Italy = 1 Battleship, 11 Cruisers, 84 Destroyers, 84 Submarines total = 180
Japan = 19 Carriers, 8 Battleships, 37 Cruisers, 134 Destroyers,130 Submarines total = 328
Netherlands = 2 Cruisers,9 Destroyers, 3 Escorts, 14 Submarines total = 28
Norway = 2 Destroyers,4 Escorts, 4 Submarines total = 10
Soviet Union = 1 Battleship, 3 Cruisers, 33 Destroyers, 100 Submarines total = 137
United Kingdom = 8 Carriers, 5 Battleships, 30 Cruisers, 110 Destroyers, 58 Escorts,77 Submarines total = 288
United States = 11 Carriers, 2 Battleships,10 Cruisers, 71 Destroyers, 10 Escorts,53 Submarines total = 157
Poland = 1 Cruiser, 3 Destroyers, 1 Escort, 2 Submarines total = 7
I think for all of the work that has gone into making WITP AE,the database info of devices, ships classes and names, all based on facts and for the most part historically accurate,where the game lets it's self down is in regard to the amount of losses sustained by ships in the game,these are way out of proportion to what happened in history,the USA lost a grand total of 2 Battleships during the entire war,yet much more than that get sunk in game terms.
All off the ships in the stock database for Durability,manouverability,AA defence etc need to be improved,ships are far to easy to sink in the game,they should sustain damage and be sent to naval dockyards for repairs as per the game.Aithought aircraft in the war scored a great many hits on ships by bomb and torpdeo,far to many according to the game prove to be fatal hits,resulting in the detruction of the ship in question,there effect in the game needs toning down quite alot to be historically accurate.
Canada = 6 Destroyers,11 Escorts total =17
Germany= 4 Battleships, 7 Cruisers, 44 Destroyers,785 Submarines total = 840
Greece = 3 Cruisers, 4 Destroyers, 4 Submarines total = 10
Italy = 1 Battleship, 11 Cruisers, 84 Destroyers, 84 Submarines total = 180
Japan = 19 Carriers, 8 Battleships, 37 Cruisers, 134 Destroyers,130 Submarines total = 328
Netherlands = 2 Cruisers,9 Destroyers, 3 Escorts, 14 Submarines total = 28
Norway = 2 Destroyers,4 Escorts, 4 Submarines total = 10
Soviet Union = 1 Battleship, 3 Cruisers, 33 Destroyers, 100 Submarines total = 137
United Kingdom = 8 Carriers, 5 Battleships, 30 Cruisers, 110 Destroyers, 58 Escorts,77 Submarines total = 288
United States = 11 Carriers, 2 Battleships,10 Cruisers, 71 Destroyers, 10 Escorts,53 Submarines total = 157
Poland = 1 Cruiser, 3 Destroyers, 1 Escort, 2 Submarines total = 7
I think for all of the work that has gone into making WITP AE,the database info of devices, ships classes and names, all based on facts and for the most part historically accurate,where the game lets it's self down is in regard to the amount of losses sustained by ships in the game,these are way out of proportion to what happened in history,the USA lost a grand total of 2 Battleships during the entire war,yet much more than that get sunk in game terms.
All off the ships in the stock database for Durability,manouverability,AA defence etc need to be improved,ships are far to easy to sink in the game,they should sustain damage and be sent to naval dockyards for repairs as per the game.Aithought aircraft in the war scored a great many hits on ships by bomb and torpdeo,far to many according to the game prove to be fatal hits,resulting in the detruction of the ship in question,there effect in the game needs toning down quite alot to be historically accurate.
Regards,
Graham.
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller
Graham.
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller
RE: World war 2 historical ship losses
You can do all the modding you want, the editor is right there.
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
RE: World war 2 historical ship losses
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- Kwik E Mart
- Posts: 2447
- Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:42 pm
RE: World war 2 historical ship losses
IMO, it's not the database, it's the way people employ their assets...play an ahistoric game and you will get ahistoric results...show me a plodding conservative Allied player and I'll show you results that more accurately reflect history...show me an Allied player that sends his old BB's to bombard Truk in late '42, and we will probably see some divergence from history...
ORIGINAL: hellfirejet
Australia = 3 Cruisers, 4 Destroyers,2 Submarines total = 9
Canada = 6 Destroyers,11 Escorts total =17
Germany= 4 Battleships, 7 Cruisers, 44 Destroyers,785 Submarines total = 840
Greece = 3 Cruisers, 4 Destroyers, 4 Submarines total = 10
Italy = 1 Battleship, 11 Cruisers, 84 Destroyers, 84 Submarines total = 180
Japan = 19 Carriers, 8 Battleships, 37 Cruisers, 134 Destroyers,130 Submarines total = 328
Netherlands = 2 Cruisers,9 Destroyers, 3 Escorts, 14 Submarines total = 28
Norway = 2 Destroyers,4 Escorts, 4 Submarines total = 10
Soviet Union = 1 Battleship, 3 Cruisers, 33 Destroyers, 100 Submarines total = 137
United Kingdom = 8 Carriers, 5 Battleships, 30 Cruisers, 110 Destroyers, 58 Escorts,77 Submarines total = 288
United States = 11 Carriers, 2 Battleships,10 Cruisers, 71 Destroyers, 10 Escorts,53 Submarines total = 157
Poland = 1 Cruiser, 3 Destroyers, 1 Escort, 2 Submarines total = 7
I think for all of the work that has gone into making WITP AE,the database info of devices, ships classes and names, all based on facts and for the most part historically accurate,where the game lets it's self down is in regard to the amount of losses sustained by ships in the game,these are way out of proportion to what happened in history,the USA lost a grand total of 2 Battleships during the entire war,yet much more than that get sunk in game terms.
All off the ships in the stock database for Durability,manouverability,AA defence etc need to be improved,ships are far to easy to sink in the game,they should sustain damage and be sent to naval dockyards for repairs as per the game.Aithought aircraft in the war scored a great many hits on ships by bomb and torpdeo,far to many according to the game prove to be fatal hits,resulting in the detruction of the ship in question,there effect in the game needs toning down quite alot to be historically accurate.
Kirk Lazarus: I know who I am. I'm the dude playin' the dude, disguised as another dude!
Ron Swanson: Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets.
Ron Swanson: Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets.
RE: World war 2 historical ship losses
Just some thoughts about the why such a difference between game and historical results....
Perhaps the Leadership of the TF commanders within any given situation in the game and how the Game Command reacts to it as compared to how the actual Combat Leaders did in similar situations?
Damage control, training, morale, and Espirit de Corps of the actual historical Crew as opposed to the Game? Situational Desparation perhaps? I have sailed across the Pacific Ocean and believe me it is HUGE. If you are on the only floating mass for 1000 miles and you think you might lose your island you just might exceed the game developers expectations in your response to damage control. Or then you might panic and scream like a little school girl and flee.
When and where was the ship built? Was it a Wednesday or a Friday? [X(] (LOL just kidding). Actually what was the mindset of the shipbuilder crews as they built it? Were they dedicated professional seeking to do the best job they could on each and every task they performed or where they slugs from Lower Slobovia the were just going through the motions? Was it actually built to spec and tolerance or was it slammed together to "Get er Done" ??
In the defense of Matrix I dont think you can really accurately model all of those things without entering the Twilight Zone of Computer Game Code [X(]
However I do think that some enegetic gamer will probably tweak some changes and make some level of a correction by adjusting the settings I have mentioned as well as many others I have not thought of. [8D]
But then that is one of the awesome things about this game... you can get into the guts and do all kinds of things !!
Later,
KayBay [8D]
Perhaps the Leadership of the TF commanders within any given situation in the game and how the Game Command reacts to it as compared to how the actual Combat Leaders did in similar situations?
Damage control, training, morale, and Espirit de Corps of the actual historical Crew as opposed to the Game? Situational Desparation perhaps? I have sailed across the Pacific Ocean and believe me it is HUGE. If you are on the only floating mass for 1000 miles and you think you might lose your island you just might exceed the game developers expectations in your response to damage control. Or then you might panic and scream like a little school girl and flee.
When and where was the ship built? Was it a Wednesday or a Friday? [X(] (LOL just kidding). Actually what was the mindset of the shipbuilder crews as they built it? Were they dedicated professional seeking to do the best job they could on each and every task they performed or where they slugs from Lower Slobovia the were just going through the motions? Was it actually built to spec and tolerance or was it slammed together to "Get er Done" ??
In the defense of Matrix I dont think you can really accurately model all of those things without entering the Twilight Zone of Computer Game Code [X(]
However I do think that some enegetic gamer will probably tweak some changes and make some level of a correction by adjusting the settings I have mentioned as well as many others I have not thought of. [8D]
But then that is one of the awesome things about this game... you can get into the guts and do all kinds of things !!
Later,
KayBay [8D]
It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter
If you dont mind... It dont matter
RE: World war 2 historical ship losses
I would agree with Kwik E Mart. Game players can be far more ruthless in there employment of units than some commanders (I am not sure about REAL Japanese, Russian and Chinese commanders). A US players knows that they will get more carriers and can be somewhat careless at times IRL losing 2000 men was not going to be popular especially in the Western democracies.
IRL unit commanders and men would be reluctant to die. While there are many examples of units that acted bravely there are also examples of units that avoided engagements or broke off early. In my gaming experience this does not happen as often.
Comparing actual losses to game losses would be difficult. You would almost have to compare actual damage and even then IRL odd things happen (ex HMS Ark Royal should not have sunk from that torpedo)
IRL unit commanders and men would be reluctant to die. While there are many examples of units that acted bravely there are also examples of units that avoided engagements or broke off early. In my gaming experience this does not happen as often.
Comparing actual losses to game losses would be difficult. You would almost have to compare actual damage and even then IRL odd things happen (ex HMS Ark Royal should not have sunk from that torpedo)
"When you are about to kill someone it costs nothing to be polite." WS Churchill
RE: World war 2 historical ship losses
Maybe we should mod the game and PC to give us an electrical shock each time we lose a plane or ship (the latter would be a really big, nasty shock!) Then we'll have some motivation to avoid unnecessary losses (as real life leaders did) and some pain every time there is a major loss (as many leaders undoubtedly experienced.) Aside from that, it remains a game and we can see people push it to get all sorts of ahistorical results. The engine, AFAIC, is otherwise pretty sound.
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- Kwik E Mart
- Posts: 2447
- Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:42 pm
RE: World war 2 historical ship losses
I ususally hurt my fist banging the desk when I have big ship losses...does that count? [;)]
ORIGINAL: gunnergoz
Maybe we should mod the game and PC to give us an electrical shock each time we lose a plane or ship (the latter would be a really big, nasty shock!) Then we'll have some motivation to avoid unnecessary losses (as real life leaders did) and some pain every time there is a major loss (as many leaders undoubtedly experienced.) Aside from that, it remains a game and we can see people push it to get all sorts of ahistorical results. The engine, AFAIC, is otherwise pretty sound.
Kirk Lazarus: I know who I am. I'm the dude playin' the dude, disguised as another dude!
Ron Swanson: Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets.
Ron Swanson: Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets.
RE: World war 2 historical ship losses
ORIGINAL: gunnergoz
Maybe we should mod the game and PC to give us an electrical shock each time we lose a plane or ship (the latter would be a really big, nasty shock!) Then we'll have some motivation to avoid unnecessary losses (as real life leaders did) and some pain every time there is a major loss (as many leaders undoubtedly experienced.) Aside from that, it remains a game and we can see people push it to get all sorts of ahistorical results. The engine, AFAIC, is otherwise pretty sound.
Hahahaa... that's a good proposal.
Perhaps the game should get itself in a strike and not allow you play for 3 days when someone loses a BB. That will make people careful on what they do!
Cheers [:D]
fbs
- Kwik E Mart
- Posts: 2447
- Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:42 pm
RE: World war 2 historical ship losses
Seriously, though....wasn't there a proposal a ways back to deduct PP's for large capital ship losses? Would make sense to me....lose enough BB's as the Allies and the public outrage is so high that it becomes near impossible to make the sweeping changes to strategy that PP expenditure would facilitate...of course, BB losses would most likely have been held from the public for quite a while...
ORIGINAL: fbs
ORIGINAL: gunnergoz
Maybe we should mod the game and PC to give us an electrical shock each time we lose a plane or ship (the latter would be a really big, nasty shock!) Then we'll have some motivation to avoid unnecessary losses (as real life leaders did) and some pain every time there is a major loss (as many leaders undoubtedly experienced.) Aside from that, it remains a game and we can see people push it to get all sorts of ahistorical results. The engine, AFAIC, is otherwise pretty sound.
Hahahaa... that's a good proposal.
Perhaps the game should get itself in a strike and not allow you play for 3 days when someone loses a BB. That will make people careful on what they do!
Cheers [:D]
fbs
Kirk Lazarus: I know who I am. I'm the dude playin' the dude, disguised as another dude!
Ron Swanson: Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets.
Ron Swanson: Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets.
RE: World war 2 historical ship losses
There was a siginificant amount of political backlash in the US after Tarawa. Thousands of KIA and WIA for an island that is today nothing more than a trash heap.
ORIGINAL: Kwik E Mart
Seriously, though....wasn't there a proposal a ways back to deduct PP's for large capital ship losses? Would make sense to me....lose enough BB's as the Allies and the public outrage is so high that it becomes near impossible to make the sweeping changes to strategy that PP expenditure would facilitate...of course, BB losses would most likely have been held from the public for quite a while...
ORIGINAL: fbs
ORIGINAL: gunnergoz
Maybe we should mod the game and PC to give us an electrical shock each time we lose a plane or ship (the latter would be a really big, nasty shock!) Then we'll have some motivation to avoid unnecessary losses (as real life leaders did) and some pain every time there is a major loss (as many leaders undoubtedly experienced.) Aside from that, it remains a game and we can see people push it to get all sorts of ahistorical results. The engine, AFAIC, is otherwise pretty sound.
Hahahaa... that's a good proposal.
Perhaps the game should get itself in a strike and not allow you play for 3 days when someone loses a BB. That will make people careful on what they do!
Cheers [:D]
fbs
"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC