HOI3

[Missouri_Rebel]

The only comments I have about this is that the Matrix Forums are a pleasant haven for mostly level-headed gaming folk. I'm curious about their game, but the general vibe to me there at Paradox forums is of rotton children in need of a nap. Good comments criticized. Bad manners defended. Sharp-tongued mods....etc.

Where do these people reside? Not in my community, thank God. The Internet Generation I guess? Using that tone to people has certain ramifications in a more personal setting.

That's why I choose my words carefully.
The beauty of free speech; It could lead to a fist in the face.

mo reb

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: sulla05

I've never noticed that " in reply to " addition at the end of the post. My post was in reply to no one in particular and I can't seem to get rid of it.

You can't get rid of that in the bottom right corner. If you want to reply to a certain user, click the "Reply" or "Quote" in the top right of that persons post.

[jjax]

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

The only comments I have about this is that the Matrix Forums are a pleasant haven for mostly level-headed gaming folk. I'm curious about their game, but the general vibe to me there at Paradox forums is of rotton children in need of a nap. Good comments criticized. Bad manners defended. Sharp-tongued mods....etc.

Where do these people reside? Not in my community, thank God. The Internet Generation I guess? Using that tone to people has certain ramifications in a more personal setting.

That's why I choose my words carefully.
The beauty of free speech; It could lead to a fist in the face.

mo reb

Oh my, you don't visit youtube very often do you. After reading the comments there, the comments on paradox's forum will read like a lecture from Oxford.

[jjax]

hmmmm, double post.

[SS Hauptsturmfuhrer]

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

The only comments I have about this is that the Matrix Forums are a pleasant haven for mostly level-headed gaming folk. I'm curious about their game, but the general vibe to me there at Paradox forums is of rotton children in need of a nap. Good comments criticized. Bad manners defended. Sharp-tongued mods....etc.

Where do these people reside? Not in my community, thank God. The Internet Generation I guess? Using that tone to people has certain ramifications in a more personal setting.

That's why I choose my words carefully.
The beauty of free speech; It could lead to a fist in the face.

mo reb

I haven't seen the Paradox forum other than the occasional link referral, but it sounds quite normal for any gaming site which targets the teenager to young adult market. Even forums dominated by old people have the same problems but the quibbling has more a political tendency to it. Here are two pieces I read recently that describe the psychology of internet forums. The key point is that freedoms of belief and speech do not extend to the internet.

I do not know who wrote this guide so no credit can be given.

n00b

A. INTRO
I. What is this?
II. Defining 'Noob'

B. COMMON NOOB CHARACTERISTICS
I. Noobish
II. Where to find noobs
III. Behavior of noobs
IV. Noob religion
V. More about noob habitats

C. AVOIDING NOOBS
I. Make sure you aren't one
II. Major noob avoiding strategies

------------------------

A. INTRO

I. What is this?
This guide is designed to give you a better understanding of what a noob is, how to recognize them, some details about them, and how to avoid or get rid of them. It mostly applies to online forums, which are the main targets of migrating noobs.

II. Defining 'Noob'
Contrary to the belief of many, a noob/n00b and a newbie/newb are not the same thing. Newbs are those who are new to some task* and are very beginner at it, possibly a little overconfident about it, but they are willing to learn and fix their errors to move out of that stage. n00bs, on the other hand, know little and have no will to learn any more. They expect people to do the work for them and then expect to get praised about it, and make up a unique species of their own. It is the latter we will study in this guide so that the reader is prepared to encounter them in the wild if needed.

Noobs are often referred to as n00bs as a sign of disrespect toward them, and it's often hella funny, but I will refer to them as noobs during this reading.

* Usually the topic at hand on an internet forum.

B. COMMON NOOB CHARACTERISTICS

I. Noobish
Often, but not always, noobs will attempt to communicate in their own primitive language, known as "n00bish." It is a variant of the hacker language that exposes them as having little intelligence or will to learn. Here is an example of some noobish. Do not attempt to comprehend it: it cannot be discerned without professionals at hand.

stFU /../..an, i r teh r0xx0rz liek emin3m, u cna go tO EHLL OR ATLE4St help m3 wit hthIS!!111!!!!!!!1~~1!!``!! LOLLOLOLLOLOLlOoLLOlollLLl u n00b

Although you may find this unbelievably funny and/or annoying, it is best to restrain yourself and keep from talking back to them, as they are very territorial and easily angered. This will result in their attempted verbal abuse of you, possibly backed up by other noobs, because they work in packs when doing offensive tasks. It is not an easy task to learn this language because our intelligent accent will keep it from sounding quite right when spoken. You can write some simple noobish of your own, however, by slamming your face into your keyboard repeatedly.

II. Where to find n00bs
On the internet, n00bs make their colonies on forums. They migrate in waves, usually on weekends, and proceed to clog up bandwidth with stupid questions and sometimes even stupid answers. If you happen to be unfortunate enough to be on a board large enough to attract migrating noobs, there will hopefully be authority in charge who is smart enough to take extermination measures before they can make nests and larger colonies. THE BANNER HAMMER is one form of authority.

Larger colonies can result in the mutation of some into spammers. Not commercial spammers, but pointless spammers. A noob can become one of these at any point, but the larger the amount of noobs, the more chance pointless spammers will appear.

Off the internet, noobs appear anywhere the focus is on learning or discussing something specific.

III. Behavior of noobs
Since noobs are basically ignorant bastards, they have a lot in common. The most often seen characteristic is their fluency in noobish, which is why it got its own section. They will also be very self confident as if they were the absolute best at what they are in fact the worst at. Also, they are quite agressive and self-centered, and tend to laugh a lot using many L's and O's in rapid sucession (the noobish word for laughing like an ultimate retard).

It is their instinct to assemble in packs for defense, and they often attempt to organize packs that they call teams. Unfortunately for them, teams usually result in a total loss of communication and they can often begin to fight amongst each other. These teams are quite unlike those formed by non-noobs.

Noobs have difficulty reading English and cannot comprehend the idea of authority.

Therefore, they have an all-out disregard for rules, basic or not. A good way to identify a noob (bad) vs. a newb (good) is to tell them (or have an authority tell them) which rule they are unknowingly breaking. If they respond with an apology and fix it, they are probably not a noob. If they react by insulting everything around them in rapid noobish and causing general mayhem, it is because they are a noob and have had a small seizure due to their inability to understand what is happening.

IV. Noob Religion
Noobs follow a variation of the 1337 (sometimes 7331) religion, in which they worship the number in odd rituals and put altars in their forum avatars and signatures. They often call themselves 1337, which experts say is somewhat like calling themselves godly in a human language. It's best to not interfere with their religious fantasies and practices because that can lead to a noob uprising, which can turn a forum to mush in less than a week.

V. More about noob habitats
Noobs often attempt to maintain their own web pages. Some common features of these lairs are a terrible lack of content, background music, lots of pointless animated gifs, and pages that say some variation of 'tHEir isnothinG H34r yEtt LOLLOLOL!111!1!!~~~!!`! 13371337', which means 'Nothing here yet' in noobish.

They will also have large, seemingly infinite marquees of 88X31 affiliate buttons replaced with red X's scattered here and there, and possibly a hit counter showing a number less than 100. These habitats are numerous but fairly easy to avoid because only noobs link to them. So if you can identify a noob, don't go to its homepage. Simple as that.

C. AVOIDING NOOBS

I. Make sure you aren't one
Note: This section is bilingual so even noobs can make the discovery if they haven't already.

English (T4lk)-

Read the above parts of this guide carefully. If you find yourself unable to comprehend any of it but are instead beginning to think about how great you are and how awesome 'teh 1337' is, you might want to take one of the many available online quizzes to check your noobancy.

Noobish (133713371337)- Liek, u gott4 re3D teh gudieCAREFUl1y and tehn OMG LIEK I AM R0XX0RZ ya anD ify 0u turn into teh reTARDED u gota go 2 MY WEBP4GE LOLLOLOL!!111~11 ad check 4 warez n stfuu. if u r a n00b go2HELL LOLLOLOlROFLMFAO11!!!11!!!! a/s/l pos gtg n00b suxx0rz ur b0xx0rz OLOOOLOLLLL HELP HELP HELP 1337133713371337

II. Major noob avoiding strategies
The main factor in attracting migrating herds of noobs is a large, active forum. If you find one of these, look to see if it has the management to avoid noob infestation. If not, look for a small or mid-sized forum that covers the same topic so you can enjoy your time there before the noobs find it.

Another way to keep noobs from interfering with your life is to become part of the authority on one of these forums. But that's often hard to do so you'll probably be better off avoiding larger forums first off. If you do manage to become part of the authority, however, take full advantage of it and establish extermination policies so that normal people can have a nice time without noob infestations.




The correct way to use a forum (by joemcmullan)

A general rule of thumb in a forum is to READ the posters post, and then think of a witty reply to belittle or agree with him.

Its generally not the rule of thumb to completely mis undersand the post, and attempt to be witty based upon the assinine assumption you have.

[doomtrader]

I've played the game yesterday for a couple of hours, and it looks that after couple of patches the game will be fun to play.
The only thing that bothers and is annoying for me is the Stalingrad position.

[Feltan]

I purchased the game over the weekend.

It is considerably different from HOI2+mods. So far, the changes all seem to be for the positive. A few tweeks are needed, but I find it very enjoyable.

Regards,
Feltan

[pvthudson01]

How do you guys get around the combat? It is so abstract. I feel like I am just clicking a unit to go somewhere and waiting and waiting and watching for numbers to pop up real fast with a window. I just cannot get around it. 

[Lützow]

There is a window for combat events.

[JudgeDredd]

The combat is abstract. Always has been in HoI (or should I say Paradox) games. It's certainly not tactical and was never meant to be, although the new number of provinces provides "options".

The choices you make are more to do with attacking at the right time with the right mix of forces and overwhelming force - the new number of provinces allows for slightly more "tactical" play - you have choices on routes instead of the old way of banging at the front door.

The game is more about managing a nation that tactical battles. If you feel like your clicking and waiting, I might be wrong, but it suggests you haven't grasped the concept of the game. [;)]

[LarryP]

Judge; I've put in a few hours playing this game and does it seem to you that the amount of control for battles is about nil? At the HQ level and setting them to AI, you cannot command anything below the top HQ. If you don't set the HQ's to AI then you get penalties up the gazoo.

I'm not sure yet whether I like this idea or not, although it is not a click fest, unless you have the messages set to pop up instead of displaying in the log. That's annoying.

I wish there were a bit more control over the troops in AI mode. Seems to me there are more things you can't do then can. Am I wrong?

[JudgeDredd]

I've not played many battles to be honest Larry. I've been playing early '36 and restarting a few times whilst learning. The battles I did do were in the demo. I liked the HQ idea...however I do understand what you mean.

The whole point of the HQ org was to remove the clickfest of selecting units and pointing them here there and everywhere. What they seem to have done is remove some of the micro management from the player by introducing this HQ org thing - the downside is that you don't get "as much control" as you did before. For some that will be a good thing - others, it'll be bad. I haven't made my mind up truly yet, though I like the "idea" of sending an HQ through several provinces and letting it get on with it...but there were times when I took command at the lower level.

In truth, I'm not sure at the moment. They've tried to appease people who don't want to micro manage, and by doing so seem to have left people thinking they're watching a show.

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

In truth, I'm not sure at the moment. They've tried to appease people who don't want to micro manage, and by doing so seem to have left people thinking they're watching a show.

Exactly, like watching a show.

I understand why they did what they did with the HQ management. I did not like the clickfest of HOI2, but this to me is the extreme opposite without a happy medium. Even if they dropped the penalties some or entirely, I would like it more. The only real control other than micromanaging is the shift+r-click where you want the HQ to concentrate on. That's about it!

[R.E.LEE]

played hoi2 for years.even though i love jtcs ,there realy is no better grand strategy ww2 game out there that touches hoi ,i bought hoi3 and once bugs are fixed it will never be surpassed.it covers the whole thing i just love that game.and i am a turn based only guy for 35 years.but you are able to set the game speed so s;ow that i swear it feels like lol fluid turn based

[mllange]

ORIGINAL: LarryP

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

In truth, I'm not sure at the moment. They've tried to appease people who don't want to micro manage, and by doing so seem to have left people thinking they're watching a show.

Exactly, like watching a show.

I understand why they did what they did with the HQ management. I did not like the clickfest of HOI2, but this to me is the extreme opposite without a happy medium. Even if they dropped the penalties some or entirely, I would like it more. The only real control other than micromanaging is the shift+r-click where you want the HQ to concentrate on. That's about it!

I disagree to a point - as long as you maintain the HQ organization you can still micro-manage to your heart's content and retain the HQ/org bonus - just don't use the AI objectives to move your army/corp/division, do it yourself. On the other hand, if you want to turn the control of an army/corp/division (or simply a part of the army/corp) over to the AI then you can do that too. It's the best of both worlds in a way, you retain control when you want or need it but you are not forced to manage every little thing that goes on.

I think people are still learning the system and that once they really figure out what they can do the benefits will begin to shine through the murkiness of opinion that is out there right now.

If you set Theater-level objectives then it is like watching a show. If you maintain division-level objectives (or even simple control), it is an active participation.

[JudgeDredd]

I was just going to say to Larry what you said Nim8or...that the ability to micromanage is still there. Like I said, I haven't played many battles at all yet, but I was pretty sure I was able to control, Divisions and, my favourite, Corps level.

So whilst they have taken micro-management away from some, they've left it for others. The reason I didn't mention it before is because he threw me with the "penalty" issue - I wasn't sure - all I knew at the time is that you could attack with your "little people"

The Shift Click feature is fantastic, even down at division level - especially for punching holes in the defence to encircle. I love it. First thing I did as Germany in the demo was issue Corps level orders for attacking the main front, then came up from the south punching a hole in the weak front.

I'm hoping they'll sort the interface lag I'm getting - it's not a game breaker, but it does prevent me going into my most favoured zoom level.

I'll look online tonight for updated graphics drivers - they were probably using the latest set, so I best try the latest set.

Great game...so in depth and with the new number of provinces it gives a little tactical thought to the game too. I think they've done a great job. Rough out the box, like every company, but patches will make this amazing. And like R.R>Lee said - the single best all ecompassing strategic wargame. I'm pleased with where they've taken it so far.

[Ron]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

So whilst they have taken micro-management away from some, they've left it for others. The reason I didn't mention it before is because he threw me with the "penalty" issue - I wasn't sure - all I knew at the time is that you could attack with your "little people"

That's funny because I didn't get that penalty comment either at first. As said above, if you maintain the organizational structure of the Army, whether AI or human controlled, then the HQ's confer certain bonuses (not sure what/amount); however if you detach a Corps or Army etc from the command heirarchy then there are no bonuses. Lots of other cool stuff in this game, especially the faction 'drift' in relation to Threat. I don't think it's like watching a show, you can be as involved as you want now, in fact if you want total control then it is even more demanding than HOI 2. I am looking forward to Barbarossa as Germany and having the AI control some Armies. I always dreaded the operation in HOI 2 with DAIM! [X(]

[LarryP]

About the penalties... I read at the Paradox site that if you move a troop outside of HQ then there is a 160 hour penalty before that troop can be ordered again.

One of the other penalties I read in the manual on page 62:

Keep in mind that Theatre Commanders serve a very
important function: lessening the impact of Coordination
Penalties that prevent large numbers of Divisions from
operating in collaboration with one another. This penalty,
unless offset by a Theatre Commander, can have such an
impact in Combat that it can mean the difference between
victory or defeat! Unless you have a Theatre Commander
and an integrated command structure, you must learn to
deal with that penalty in every battle.

Other misc penalties:
On page 67 there is a stacking penalty but that is normal in every battle game I have.
On page 71 (14.7) there is a penalty for defending on multiple fronts.
On page 71 (15.1) there is the stacking penalty.

If you do a search for the word Penalty, there are a lot of references, some though are necessary for correct assimilation of combat results.

Viewing the many penalties, and I'm not saying which ones I disagree with or which ones I think are necessary, if you go to battle without using the AI at top HQ level, you had better know about all these penalties so you can work around or with them.

I played for three hours last night, using the AI at top HQ level and had a blast. I do wish I could have intervened a little here and there, but that's not an option. I'm not against this game at all. I like it. I am learning as I go like everyone else, so please don't think I am trolling it. That's not even an option.

[JudgeDredd]

Larry - if I know you even remotely, I think ti's fair to say you don't troll. Not that I've seen.
 
Stacking penalities are correct, though those are not to do with using HQ level or not. Similarly with defending on multiple fronts - again nothing really to do with HQ level organisation.
 
The first one you mention, though, I'm not sure. tbh - the way I read it is kind of similar to the "stacking" penalty - in other words, the designers are trying to prevent you from using mass amounts of divisions to attack the same region with. I would think if you would use  a "similar" number of divisions as what is under the HQ's there will be no penalties! Also, I would also think you are safe (probably moreso) if you use the same divisions from the same HQ. I'm not sure, but that's how I read it.

[06 Maestro]

ORIGINAL: LarryP

Viewing the many penalties, and I'm not saying which ones I disagree with or which ones I think are necessary, if you go to battle without using the AI at top HQ level, you had better know about all these penalties so you can work around or with them.

Well said, Larry.

After playing the demo for a few hours it was clear that the AI could take down Poland much easier than I could by trying to give orders to various armies and corps. I bought the game yesterday and played for a few hours in a scenario that I'm very familiar with (from Hoi2DD). I had the same difficulties in defeating Ethiopia as Italy in the '36 campaign. The AI can do a much better job than I can at this point.

You are quite correct; before you start micromanaging your forces, you really need to become familiar with how this game works. Actually, this aspect of the new game is the most difficult for me. I am already comfortable with the revamped areas of techs, politics, diplomacy, production and the statistics window (no links??). The one area I'm finding the most difficult is in being able to customize a big operation.

In some ways this new game has incorporated some of the best attributes of Making History and the Panther Games series. They should have added some kind of on map command hierarchy such as CotA's command lines to higher and lower.

Anyway, HoI 3 looks to be a great game-patches are coming fast.