Saved game editing-AGAIN

[Buck Beach]

I know of MATRIX's fanatical opposition to this concept, which means it won't change unless they can see why it makes sense.

We all know the game will be supported with ongoing patches to include corrections and improvements. Given the 10 to 15 hours of 1ST turn set up alone and the weeks and months staring at the computer during a campaign, the "OK time to start over guys" is a real negative. While there will be changes that would screw up any existing game, there will certainly be many that should not.

MATRIX TEAR DOWN THIS WALL and allow us to tweak, and applied patches be applicable, to the saved game files. The ability of PBEM players to cheat on their opponent should not be a factor. I would venture to say, if one is found cheating they would be blackball by the community, which would be a fate worse than death to a die hard WITP/AE player.

[&o][&o][&o]

[RevRick]

Hear! Hear! There are a lot of game starts I had against the AI that would have benefited from that particular possibility, and prevented my better half from stopping what she was doing to see why I had just screamed "RATS!!!" or, perhaps, a more scatological exclamation of the bovine persuasion.

[bradfordkay]

I think that there is a huge difference between being able to apply patches to currently running games and allowing a saved game to be edited. IF there is a way to do the former, I believe that it will happen - but I rather doubt that the latter will ever be allowed... just my two cents worth (okay, half a cent from half a brain!). 

[tocaff]

Banned from PBEM!?!?  Indeed a horrible fate. I have in my years of PBEM have been in contact with many people who are honest to a fault and will jump through hoops to keep a game going.

[NormS3]

Well said to the both of you!

I agree, but I definitly understand the potential for abuse, maybe a way to adjust saved game files for non PBEM games? [&:]

Either way, thanks again to Matrix and AE team for all their great work and understanding.[&o][&o][&o]

[Bladesss]

As a different work arround to the open save games..
I would like the option of saving everything i did during the turn as a script. That could be read back in at the beginnig of the turn.
That way i have a record of what i did that turn.
That for my next game i have all that work for turn 1 available and can read it into the game and then make changed based on my leasons learned.
I presume only 2-3 turns of such scripts would be useful because actions by the enemy would quikly invalidate them.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I think that there is a huge difference between being able to apply patches to currently running games and allowing a saved game to be edited. IF there is a way to do the former, I believe that it will happen - but I rather doubt that the latter will ever be allowed... just my two cents worth (okay, half a cent from half a brain!). 

When I refer to editing save game files I mean to allow for OOB and changes by the Editor to equipment, devices, units, a/c etc etc

[pad152]

Why don't you just ask for a cheat codes too!

Just copy one the the small scenarios and change what you want in the editor,  test the new small scenario with human playing both sides, then make the changes in a new campaign game.

That said, I hope the developers have a way to update any future OOB changes in patches for saved games so restarts are not required or very limited.

[DivePac88]

I would have thought that you could work around a new patch; by cutting and pasting your save-game folder out of the game folder. Then after patching-up the game, cut-paste your save game folder back into the game folder. Load the game, load the old saved game then save it again strait away. Theatrically that would work around the patch, and your new save would be in the new patch condition.

[JWE]

Several things, here.

Bladess, there will be a pre-run turn save, and a post-run turn save. You can fetch all the pre-run saves from the "save" folder, organize them, and reload them as savegame files if you want to play around. Lots of flexibility, if you have the disc space. You CANNOT do any substitutions in PBEM mode.

Buck Beach, Matrix will not, ever, allow editing of savegame files.

Bradfordkay, it's a real bitch to do that, but if it's at all possible, it will be done. We play too and know how hard it is to keep redoing turn-1, or dump a game in late '42.

You all need to understand that there are 3 components of a patch; the executables (game run code), database (scenarios), and incidentals (ship/plane/map art, etc).

90+% of executable patches will still run older games. Where the change is major, Matrix will (regretfully) let you know, so you can keep on keeping on with your present set.

Incidental changes 'should' have no effect whatsoever on ongoing games (map code might be a bugger, but ..)

Database changes are what require the vast majority of restarts. But if your game is getting on pretty good with your existing database, so what; just use the new exe, new art, find out what is really different in the new db and negotiate a house rule with an opponent to accommodate.

To briefly recap, one will never, ever, be able to edit a savegame file. Patches will try to be accommodating as possible.

[pad152]

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

I would have thought that you could work around a new patch; by cutting and pasting your save-game folder out of the game folder. Then after patching-up the game, cut-paste your save game folder back into the game folder. Load the game, load the old saved game then save it again strait away. Theatrically that would work around the patch, and your new save would be in the new patch condition.

When you start a new game a copy of the data from the database is saved as part of the saved game, only that data from the saved game is then used, any changes to the database then have no effect on saved games. The only way to get the updated changes in the database is restarting a new game (new copy of the data from the database).

[Barb]

I think there are two types of patches/changes:
1. system - like various in-program settings, variables, computation and so on these are working only in "replay" phase say setting sweep bonus from 1.3 to 1.2
these do not require game restarts
2. stored - like OOB, units positions, strenght, pilots exp, ...
these require game restarts - you really cant move a Battalion from place C to place D (in turn 256) because the starting possition A was incorrect and should be at B...
or set staring squadron average experience at 70 when it already was fighting a year and gained/losed experience and pilots...

[Terminus]

This is correct.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: pad152

Why don't you just ask for a cheat codes too!

Rather sarcastic comment, wouldn't you say?

[steveh11Matrix]

ORIGINAL: JWE

To briefly recap, one will never, ever, be able to edit a savegame file. Patches will try to be accommodating as possible.

Well, that's a conceptual #Fail# on their part, not yours. I would love to have the ability to play with a scenario in the editor, play the game for a bit, say "Oops" and add in something I'd forgotten *that has not yet affected the game* and continue the scenario, but no, I have to edit and *restart*. Darn shame that it's mid 1943, but that's what Big Brother Matrix says. BIG fail on Matrix' part. But I accept that it's nothing you have control over.

Matrix: Sorry if I sound snippy, but I am. This has bugged me since I started with WitP. Paradox (for example) don't do this, why do Matrix have to? If you want to protect PBEMers from their (obviously untrustworthy) opponents, then do so - but why do it to me, too?

Steve.

[wworld7]

Because this is the way Matrix and many users want it.

And in the end I don't see the choice by Matrix changing in regards to WITP-AE.

You say they fail, well I say I agree with the choice made by them.

Yet, I know somebody down the road will rehash this discussion once again, and again...

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

Because this is the way Matrix and many users want it.

And in the end I don't see the choice by Matrix changing in regards to WITP-AE.

You say they fail, well I say I agree with the choice made by them.

Yet, I know somebody down the road will rehash this discussion once again, and again...

Would you care to elaborate as to why you agree with the choice not to permit and changes in on-going games.

[drw61]

I do not know coding so this may not be possible... but if save game editing was implemented couldn't a message be automatically sent to both players stating that a change has been made? 
It could be one of the options so both players choose to allow it before the game starts.