Differences in TBF/TBM avenger?

[Misconduct]

I recently got new TBM Avengers, curious what differences they are to the TBF?

[msieving1]

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

I recently got new TBM Avengers, curious what differences they are to the TBF?

Depends on which mod you're using. You can look them up in the database.

Historically, the TBM was the version of the Avenger manufactured by General Motors' Eastern Aircraft division. Production of the Avenger was transferred from Grumman to GM so that Grumman could concentrate on building Hellcats. Most TBMs were the -3 variant, while most TBFs were the earlier -1 variant. The performance of the -1 variant gradually declined as additional equipment increased the weight. The -3 variant had a more powerful engine to get performance (perhaps most importantly, the takeoff distance) back to the original levels.

[Misconduct]

Ah I am using CHS mod, and looked up the database and both planes were identical and was wondering why the designation was changed if both planes were the same.

[DivePac88]

Here is a comparison of the two models of Avenger from WitPTracker CHS 2.08.

[Misconduct]

Thanks Dive, I guess I don't really need to jump on upgrading my TBF's, was just curious cause my Hellkitties are out and slowly improving my carriers w/ upgrades and aircraft. Was just curious about this.

[RUPD3658]

In stock the TBM has 1 more durability.

[Misconduct]

If I ever got WiTPtracker to work I wouldn't have to answer stupid questions, I am curious though I notice the TBM-3 model has upgraded range/guns I am curious if any of the mods support different variations of aircraft like this? Example the SBD-2 carried a 1,000 bomb, or 500lb, however SBD-6 carried a nice 1,600lb bomb at range.
I am kind of curious and not sure if this was asked before, but seems a lot of allied aircraft carry the wrong ordnance, for example Corsair's only carry a 500lb bomb, I know the F4u-1 and F4u-1a carried a 1,000lb bomb on short legs, later F4u-D carried 2x1000lb bombs and 10 rockets.
Easy example of this is simply the P-40, was able to carry a 500lb bomb, but even at a range of 1 (next hex over) I only see 100lb bombs drop.
I have tried stock and CHS and unhappy with either, CHS really to me didn't seem a whole lot difference other then air combat. Are there any mods that specifically deal with upgrading the air combat with effective ords?

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

Here is a comparison of the two models of Avenger from WitPTracker CHS 2.08.

Not that it matters all that much, but the machine gun armament is wrong. The TBF-1 had a single .50 in the cowling. The -1c, which was the main -1 production variant introduced one .50 in each wing, deleting the cowling gun, and all subsequent versions had the forward firing wing armament.

In case anybody cares, the armament is correct in AE.

BTW, the first GM version of the TBM was the -1c, which gave way to the -3 after a few months of production. The -3 was built in larger numbers than the -1 series.

Bill

[Misconduct]

Bravo bill you are absolutely right, thanks so much for the information. 

[msieving1]

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

If I ever got WiTPtracker to work I wouldn't have to answer stupid questions, I am curious though I notice the TBM-3 model has upgraded range/guns I am curious if any of the mods support different variations of aircraft like this? Example the SBD-2 carried a 1,000 bomb, or 500lb, however SBD-6 carried a nice 1,600lb bomb at range.
I am kind of curious and not sure if this was asked before, but seems a lot of allied aircraft carry the wrong ordnance, for example Corsair's only carry a 500lb bomb, I know the F4u-1 and F4u-1a carried a 1,000lb bomb on short legs, later F4u-D carried 2x1000lb bombs and 10 rockets.
Easy example of this is simply the P-40, was able to carry a 500lb bomb, but even at a range of 1 (next hex over) I only see 100lb bombs drop.
I have tried stock and CHS and unhappy with either, CHS really to me didn't seem a whole lot difference other then air combat. Are there any mods that specifically deal with upgrading the air combat with effective ords?

IRL, the SBD-5 (the -6 was virtually identical) could carry a 1,600 lb bomb, but had a combat radius of 95 miles with that load. There was no way a SBD was going to get off the ground with a 1,600 lb bomb load and a full tank of gas. That extra 600 lbs of bomb meant 600 lbs less fuel.

It would be more accurate to say that the F4U could carry a 1,000 lb bomb. That doesn't mean that it routinely did carry that size bomb. Again, and the same is true with virtually all WW II aircraft, carrying the maximum bomb load meant that something else, usually fuel, had to stay home.

[wdolson]

Frequently texts will cite the theoretical maximum ordinance load, but not the typical load.  Maximum loads were rarely carried due to the range limitations.

With SBDs, the strike package usually carried a mix of 500 lb and 1000 lb bombs.  The first planes launched would carry 500 lb because they would have to loiter over the carrier while the strike formed up.  The last planes off usually had 1000 lb bombs.  For example the vic that attacked the Akagi at Midway had 2x SBD with 500 lb and 1X with 1000 lb.

The F4U-1 (birdcage) had no hard points for ordinance.  The F4U-1a had none from the factory, though many were modified in the field as Japanese air resistance began to falter and the F4Us were converted to fighter bombers.  A few remaining F4U-1s were also converted, though more were out of front line service by the time the bomb racks were fitted.

The F4U-1d had three hardpoints under the fuselage and wing roots plus rocket stubs.  Even on short range shore support missions from CVEs, they very rarely carried ordinance on all three racks.  Frequently they would carry one or two drop tanks along with the ordinance.

External ordinance not only adds to the weight of the plane, but it also adds drag, which further increases fuel consumption. 

The game engine has limits as to what variety of load outs can be used.  In many cases aircraft had a wider variety of loads than the game can model.  It's a bad limit in the game that we all would like to abolish, but it would involve a massive rewrite of the aircraft database code.  Game designers have chosen loads that represent the most commonly used ordinance mix as opposed to the theoretical maximum or rarely used mixes.

It's not ideal, but it's something we have to live with.

Bill

[Feinder]

Basically, the TBF/TBM in WitP are basically just a production increase for the Allies.  I leave my squadrons as TBFs, just to use up the pool (not sure that I ever will).  Consider that, if you've really burned thru the hundreds of TBFs that you'll recieve, which 95% of the squadrons using the TBF are CV squadrons - if you've burned thru hundreds of torpedo bombers as Allies, you've probably got bigger problems going on already.
 
-F-

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

Here is a comparison of the two models of Avenger from WitPTracker CHS 2.08.

According to that the difference is a slightly more powerfull engine. The main historical difference is that and the manufacturer as mentioned earlier.

[Halsey]

Suppoesedly the TBM's torpedo has a lower dud hit rate.

Just a rumor, so I could be wrong on this one.[;)][:D]

[wdolson]

Same torpedo device, same dud rate.  When the TBM arrives, US torpedoes are improving.  It's coincidental.

Bill