Loaned Corps and Multi-Nation Battles

[wbm4x]

This was touched on a few months ago, but I didn't find the answer very clear.

France and Turkey are allies. Austria and Russia are allies. France is at war with Russia but not Austria (under an enforced peace). Austria and Russia are at war with Turkey.

A Franco-Turkish army moves into a space in Turkey with an Austro-Russian army.

Could someone clarify what will happen given the loaning rules as they are currently implemented?

#1) Turks loaned to France. Austrians loaned to Russia.

#2) French loaned to Turkey. Austrians loaned to Russia.

#3) Turks loaned to France. Russians loaned to Austria.

#4) French loaned to Turkey. Russians loaned to Austria.

[Marshall Ellis]

An easier way to remember this is that loaned neutrals do NOT participate. In your example Fr and Ru should fight. Is this what you are seeing?

[wbm4x]

These are hypotheticals. I don't have a situation in my games to test them. But I would like a more detailed explanation, please.

Take #1. If the Turks are loaned to France and attack the Russian-controlled stack, what happens to the Austrians, whom France is not at war with? Do they fight, because they are under Russian control? Are they repatriated to Austrian territory, as the rules seem to imply? Are they split off from the Russians but remain in the space? If the latter, how do they stay there and not fight the Turks, whom they are at war with?

Since each of the 4 situations are different in terms of who controls whom, could you please explain exactly what will happen as the Franco-Turks or Turko-Francs enter this battle?

Bill

[wbm4x]

OK, I've done some testing.

Situation:
Austria and Prussia are allies
Russia and Turkey are allies
Everyone is at war with each other, except Austria and Russia, who have an enforced peace.

Testing:
A series of battles fought in Masovia with Ru/Tu as defenders

#1--Prussia loaned to Austria. Russia loaned to Turkey.

Austrian-led army engages only the Turks. If Au/Pr win, then Russian troops are repatriated to Moscow. If Turks win, Russians remain in the space.

#2--Prussia loaned to Austria. Turkey loaned to Russia.

Austrian-led army moves into Ru/Tu space, but no battle takes place. Turks are immediately repatriated to Constantinople. Austria, Prussian and Russian troops remain in the space, even though Prussia and Russia are at war.

#3--Prussia loaned to Austria. Turks and Russians aren't loaned to each other.

Austrian-led army engages only Turks. If Turks lose, Russians again remain in the space without fighting the Prussians.

#4--Austria loaned to Prussia. Russia loaned to Turkey.

Only Prussian corps engage Turk-led army. Austrians remain in the space if Prussians win or are repatriated to Vienna if Prussians lose.

#5--Austria loaned to Prussia. Turkey loaned to Russia.

Same results as #4.

#6--Austria loaned to Prussia. Turks and Russians not loaned to each other.

Same results as #4.


Analysis:
If you are at war with two powers that are likely to be defending in the same space and your ally is only at war with one of those powers, best loan your corps to your ally and let him lead. At most you will only fight your common enemy. If you do the reverse, then you will have to fight the battle against both your enemies on your own as your ally watches. And if you lose, your ally gets a free trip back to his capital.

As the defenders, if you know you will be moving first, best not to loan corps to each other that will be stacked together. If loaning is necessary, have the power closest to his capital city do the loaning.

Finally, the results in #2 and #3 are a bit disturbing in that two powers at war with each other can end up in the same space and not have a battle.

Bill

[Marshall Ellis]

Do you have a save game that would dupe #2 and #3?
I would love to be able to see the end of the land phase when the battle is created to see how this would be handled.
Not certain if we have tested for this???

[wbm4x]

I've created a Mantis entry (#537) to upload the files.

Bill

[Marshall Ellis]

Thanks Bill!