Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

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Fallschirmjager
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Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by Fallschirmjager »

I have been struggling with this question in some of my recent games. I would like to use some of my larger size 9 forward bases as emergency repair centers and to combat the very annoying problem of routine sys damage from sailing. I would like to establish a few bases where I can get rid of a ships flooding damage and semi repair it a forward base to improve it's speed and thus decrease the amount of time it takes to send it back to a major fleet base. It also makes the ship less prone to submarine troubles.
System damage also annoys the hell out of me. I would like to get rid of it at a forward base instead of having to rotate the ship back out the front lines and back to a major base.
Will repair ships even help with these problems at anything less than size 10 base?


I do not know how AE will handle repairs but the entire in game repair system needs a massive overhaul. In the real war even the most seriously damaged of ships could be repaired at a forward base like Noumea or Kwajalein. Their speed could be improved back to cruising levels and for carrier flight operations could be restored.
In WitP forward bases have almost no capability to repair ships.
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thegreatwent
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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by thegreatwent »

IMO repair ships help regardless of where they are. While not scientific it seems that ships get fixed faster with them present.

Of course it could be like elephant repellent, you only know it works cause you don't see any elephants[:)]
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Nikademus
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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by Nikademus »

yikes.

well you may not like that aspect of AE then.....because if you incur Major FLT or SYS damage points, you'll need to send the ships back to a port with a shipyard. (same for "upgrades" too)

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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by herwin »

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I have been struggling with this question in some of my recent games. I would like to use some of my larger size 9 forward bases as emergency repair centers and to combat the very annoying problem of routine sys damage from sailing. I would like to establish a few bases where I can get rid of a ships flooding damage and semi repair it a forward base to improve it's speed and thus decrease the amount of time it takes to send it back to a major fleet base. It also makes the ship less prone to submarine troubles.
System damage also annoys the hell out of me. I would like to get rid of it at a forward base instead of having to rotate the ship back out the front lines and back to a major base.
Will repair ships even help with these problems at anything less than size 10 base?


I do not know how AE will handle repairs but the entire in game repair system needs a massive overhaul. In the real war even the most seriously damaged of ships could be repaired at a forward base like Noumea or Kwajalein. Their speed could be improved back to cruising levels and for carrier flight operations could be restored.
In WitP forward bases have almost no capability to repair ships.

HISTORY

The game misrepresents the effect of system damage on speed. Top speed was produced by running every boiler, every turbine, and every available eggbeater. The RN had some destroyer-leader-sized fast minelayers that could make 40 knots, but they were given a cruiser machinery plant. At half power, you were at about 80% of your top speed.
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Fallschirmjager
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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by Fallschirmjager »

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

yikes.

well you may not like that aspect of AE then.....because if you incur Major FLT or SYS damage points, you'll need to send the ships back to a port with a shipyard. (same for "upgrades" too)


If there is ever a WitP it needs a much more sophisticated damage model. Damage at the highest level should equal damage taken from things like fires and should be easily repairable at forward bases to simulate emergency repairs to simply get the ship back in floating condition with enough speed to get it back to a major repair yard.
Splitting up engine and system damage is a good start but is still not enough. The game recognizes every 'point' of damage as being equal.
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dpstafford
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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by dpstafford »

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

yikes.

well you may not like that aspect of AE then.....because if you incur Major FLT or SYS damage points, you'll need to send the ships back to a port with a shipyard. (same for "upgrades" too)

That's not going to work. How will a ship with FLT damage be ABLE to get back to a shipyard? It will sink.

Pleasae tell me AE won't be "dead" out of the virual box.......
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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by jwilkerson »

You patch it up and pump it out - but the big holes or the ripped off bows etc. still need to be fixed back in the ship yard. Once the temporary repairs are made and the water pumped out (in game terms - the minor floation damage is repaired and only major floation damage remains unrepaired) then you can send the ship back to the ship yard - and unless the temporary repairs fail (greater than zero chance) then you will make it back and eventually repair the major flotation damage.

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rtrapasso
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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by rtrapasso »

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I have been struggling with this question in some of my recent games. I would like to use some of my larger size 9 forward bases as emergency repair centers and to combat the very annoying problem of routine sys damage from sailing. I would like to establish a few bases where I can get rid of a ships flooding damage and semi repair it a forward base to improve it's speed and thus decrease the amount of time it takes to send it back to a major fleet base. It also makes the ship less prone to submarine troubles.
System damage also annoys the hell out of me. I would like to get rid of it at a forward base instead of having to rotate the ship back out the front lines and back to a major base.
Will repair ships even help with these problems at anything less than size 10 base?


I do not know how AE will handle repairs but the entire in game repair system needs a massive overhaul. In the real war even the most seriously damaged of ships could be repaired at a forward base like Noumea or Kwajalein. Their speed could be improved back to cruising levels and for carrier flight operations could be restored.
In WitP forward bases have almost no capability to repair ships.

HISTORY

The game misrepresents the effect of system damage on speed. Top speed was produced by running every boiler, every turbine, and every available eggbeater. The RN had some destroyer-leader-sized fast minelayers that could make 40 knots, but they were given a cruiser machinery plant. At half power, you were at about 80% of your top speed.
HISTORY: Hundreds and hundreds of ships during WW2 were severely damaged or sunk in various mishaps... BBs blew up, CVs ran onto reefs, AEs blew up taking a bunch of other ships with them... nothing of this is present in WITP, but the players moan about a few points of SYS damage...

Be careful what you wish for: you just might get it... but remember that before complaining about your suddenly missing capitol ship that met with an unfortunate accident.
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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by Dili »

I think for this the system is good enough (now don't get me started in battle damage) it very comon to read war accounts that ship is not in very good state and can only do 5kt less of max speed.
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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by castor troy »

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I do not know how AE will handle repairs but the entire in game repair system needs a massive overhaul. In the real war even the most seriously damaged of ships could be repaired at a forward base like Noumea or Kwajalein. Their speed could be improved back to cruising levels and for carrier flight operations could be restored.
In WitP forward bases have almost no capability to repair ships.


forward bases in WITP have excellent capability to repair ships in WITP. A better capability than in real life. Rabaul can be built up to level 8 port for example and if you put a HQ there you have a level 10. Add 4 ARs and you save a CV after taking five torpw without a problem if it´s disbanded into port. Repair capability in WITP is higher than in real life, not lower.
John Lansford
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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by John Lansford »

In my experiments with AR's, I've found that they work best in ports WITHOUT shipyard repair facilities, the bigger sized the better.  I put mine in level 6-9 ports right behind the front lines (Darwin, Tarawa, Noumea, Brisbane) and send damaged ships/subs there.  They get fixed up fairly quickly there to the point they can then be sent back to the repair facilities at Pearl, Sydney, and the West Coast.
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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by Mistmatz »

It would actually be kind of an exploit to be able to keep ships on the front line for excessive periods of time (which I understand is the reason for the question).

Under normal circumstances you would send ships back for yardtime on a regular basis to overhaul the systems, repair damaged stuff, rest the crew, train new sailors and the like. In times of emergency these periods could of course get longer and longer but generally spoken every army (and navy) in the world tries to rotate their troops in and out of danger.

I believe slow, steady (albeit random) accumulation of sys damage is a way to simulate this and forces the player to keep an eye on their combat readiness of their assets. And what I've read so far it looks like the whole repair stuff will be much more micromanagment but on the other hand much better than it is currently.
If you gained knowledge through the forum, why not putting it into the AE wiki?

http://witp-ae.wikia.com/wiki/War_in_th ... ition_Wiki

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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by EUBanana »

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
CVs ran onto reefs

Thats rather embarassing. Who managed to do that and to what? [:D]
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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by rtrapasso »

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
CVs ran onto reefs

Thats rather embarassing. Who managed to do that and to what? [:D]
One of the KB... i don't recall which one right at the moment... it got taken out of play for a couple of months for repairs early in the war.
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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by TulliusDetritus »

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
CVs ran onto reefs

Thats rather embarassing. Who managed to do that and to what? [:D]

A British or American CV. In Jamaica, in 1942. I'll check at home [8D]
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rtrapasso
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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by rtrapasso »

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
CVs ran onto reefs

Thats rather embarassing. Who managed to do that and to what? [:D]
One of the KB... i don't recall which one right at the moment... it got taken out of play for a couple of months for repairs early in the war.
According to her Combined Fleets TROM:

"9 February 1942:
KAGA strikes reef at Palau while shifting mooring positions. Bilges are damaged, and Palau can only make temporary repairs. Leakage remains and speed cut to 18 knots."

She participated in the Darwin raids, but had to go into drydock, staying there 22 March - 4 May 1942.

EDIT: She missed the Indian Ocean raid due to this, and also was too late to chase the "Doolittle Raiders".
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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by Nikademus »

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager


If there is ever a WitP it needs a much more sophisticated damage model. Damage at the highest level should equal damage taken from things like fires and should be easily repairable at forward bases to simulate emergency repairs to simply get the ship back in floating condition with enough speed to get it back to a major repair yard.
Splitting up engine and system damage is a good start but is still not enough. The game recognizes every 'point' of damage as being equal.

This is represented in AE as Joe explained. You "patch up" the ship at the forward base (reduce non-Major FLT damage for example) then the ship journeys back to a shipyard for permanent repairs. One does have to be cautious with ships with serious major floatation damage as there is a risk of emergency repairs "failing"

Overall, i like the feel of the new system, especially in regards to "upgrades". It forces the player to balance maintaining certain strength levels in forward areas with the need to send ships back to "refit" (aka, upgrade) and the provisioning of "major" damage now requires ships to travel back to shipyards for complete repairs. The end result is less ships at the front which helps slow the pace of the game.




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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by herwin »

ORIGINAL: ckammp

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

ORIGINAL: EUBanana




Thats rather embarassing. Who managed to do that and to what? [:D]

A British or American CV. In Jamaica, in 1942. I'll check at home [8D]


The HMS Indomitable hit a reef in Jamaica on 3 NOV 41, and was forced to go to Norfolk,VA for repairs. This prevented her from carrying out her original mission: accompany Force Z to Singapore.

Kaga at Palau
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RE: Is it a waste of repair ships to have them in size 9 bases?

Post by USSAmerica »

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