When?

[Al3529]

Shannon,

I have been following the release of the Matrix release of WiF for several years and it appears the team is close.

Although I am disappointed with another delay from the 27 July release date, I am certain that all of us that love the board game WiF and have tried to play the CWiF want to buy a product done right, continue with the hard work!

I have done a little bit of programming and I know that a project of this size and magnitude, with the amount of rules that WiF has would take a life time for most to program.

It may seem a life time... lol.

I am certain, absolutely certain, when this product comes out, Matrix WiF will set a new standard of Realistic Strategic Computer Wargaming.

Let Steve know that we all appreciate his continued hard labor and pray that he will be able to finish the project on this new schedule.

[Droop21]

This is good news: my wife won't kill me for playing MWIF during my summer break [;)]. More seriously, like everyone I'm very happy to see that quality is preserved over schedule.
Thanks for the updates and keep up the good work [&o]

[Caquineur]

ORIGINAL: HansHafen
...I think you should release this without AI and let the PBEM, Hot Seat etc games begin. I think the AI will have to be developed as an addition or as MWIF Product 2...

Just my two cents about that :
I intend to play the game almost exclusively live on the Internet with real live opponents (NetPlay) ... so I won't use the AI at all to play the game.
On the other hand, I've never played WiF before, so I intend to use the AI to help me understand the game.

I think many beginners (like me) will do the same : study the manual and the tutorials, and play a few games with the AI, before playing the game with real players.

If this game gets the success it deserves, there should be many more WiF-beginners than WiF-veterans playing it... and I can't imagine every veteran taking hundreds of hours explaining the game to maybe five or ten new players. Therefore I do think an AI, at least good enough to help to understand the game, is really needed, in order not to hamper sales almost completety.

[Greywolf]

About a release with no AI it will be a tremendous error, especially sales wise.
 
It will be hard to be priced and will probably lower the amount of final version sold. It also will be bad press when you release a product without feature that had to be added later, regardless if you do this rightly or not.
 
I played CWiF time to time without AI, and frankly it is far better doing so on VASSAL or SUN TZU even if it is up to you to follow the rules. WiF is very complexe, a magnitude over what a lot of newcomers expect, an AI-less MWiF would be nearly useless for them. At very last the AI could show them the correct way to do thing. When first betatesting CWiF I lost several turn transferring BEF to France because my groups wasn't playing ther ules as written and I failed to see what I was doing wrong. Having a computer show you the moves could greatly help.
 
I understand the AiA wont be up for the first game version, but could a full AI game be run and spectated by players ? Thoses "handoff" kind of games are great to learn systemas.
 
Releasing without AI will be killing the golden egged goose, there is no certainty the games will be successfull enough to produce an AI-with version or even a MWiF 2 version...

[Archsurgeon]

Thank you Steve, for our patience with your fans and the product. As long as the game is released in time for Christmas, I'll be quite satisfied.

[macgregor]

ORIGINAL: HansHafen

I have posted before that I just cannot envision an AI that can play this game. No disrespect to Steve, or any other programmers of other computer war games. I think you should release this without AI and let the PBEM, Hot Seat etc games begin. I think the AI will have to be developed as an addition or as MWIF Product 2. I am not happy about that, but I can live with it. You are going to have to get neck deep in the AI for months, if not a year, to get it to the point that it can resemble a human opponent.

I don't mean this negatively, just productively and realistically.

There is an occasional feeling that my other netplayers and I are being held hostage by the AI, partially because of their constant threats; 'no AI, no sale' (and don't try to sugar-coat it because that's what it is). However, I realize that releasing a pre-AI version would require extra work that, with all the work already being done, it makes no sense to divert energy that will delay the AI release. There's a 'Catch-22' aspect to it. As someone who also anxiously awaits a new TOAW, I'd like to say that there is no comparison between the 2 projects. This place is a beehive of activity while the other forum is a morgue. It's no wonder the TOAW developer can after 2 months simply say 'I've been busy at my day job for the last 2 months' because he never posts on Matrix regardless, perhaps compounding my overall frustration. This forum is always replete with crumbs to nibble on. I believe the ends will justify the means. So, while I'm an anxious person by nature, I'll try to control my anxiety until the release, regardless of how long that takes.

[Kitakami]

Dates slip, that is unavoidable. When I worked in the software industry we used to have an inside joke: "take the expected time to completion, multiply it by two, and change it to the next higher unit of measuring time; that is the time it will really take to do it well". Thus, 2 days became 4 weeks...

But I agree with most of the posts. Take your time. Do a good job. It is far better for all those involved. And the AI is a must, yes. Maybe not for me, but important to many.

And thanks for keeping us in the loop. We really appreciate it.

[Lützow]

2. Sound effects
Jim sent me sample files but I am unable to process the OGG versions. Looking OGG up on the web, I’ve found source listings in C (C++?), but it would be difficult to incorporate them in as source code (i.e., mixing Pascal and C code). If I can reference them as object libraries (e.g., DDLs), that would be great. I need to figure out how to process OGG files from within the program as easily as I do the historical video WMV files.

Hmm, I remember JTCS used .ogg as well. Since I had to look for an appropriare converter to add music files into this game. It's not a favorite format when it comes to later modding.

[Anendrue]

Update on the WiF fan site. So far I have sent three requests to Matrix for permission to use copyrighted material in the web site. This is needed due to the material I wish to present for your use. Steve forwarded the original request immediately upon his receipt. I also sent 2 more emails and a request through the Matrix web site on different followup dates. I have not received a response from Matrix yet. There could be many reasons for this from multi company discussions to various legal issues. So I am waiting patiently for a response. I will return from my deployment next week and hopefully will be able to get a start on the site. I will open a thread for dicussion on this topic once I get a formal go ahead from Matrix. Until then they hold the keys....

[macgregor]

removed

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Lützow

2. Sound effects
Jim sent me sample files but I am unable to process the OGG versions. Looking OGG up on the web, I’ve found source listings in C (C++?), but it would be difficult to incorporate them in as source code (i.e., mixing Pascal and C code). If I can reference them as object libraries (e.g., DDLs), that would be great. I need to figure out how to process OGG files from within the program as easily as I do the historical video WMV files.

Hmm, I remember JTCS used .ogg as well. Since I had to look for an appropriare converter to add music files into this game. It's not a favorite format when it comes to later modding.

Karl (Cwie) solved this problem for me yesterday.[&o][&o][&o] The program now executes OGG sound files perfectly. Some things are easy to do - when you know how to do them.[:D]

[npilgaard]

Thanks for the update.

As has been said many times by now: a delayed release is much to be preferred to an unfinished product.
A few more months is no problem at all.

I am amazed by the level of commitment to this project! - Thank you indeed for the huge amount of work you put into this!

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
2. Sound effects
Jim sent me sample files but I am unable to process the OGG versions. Looking OGG up on the web, I’ve found source listings in C (C++?), but it would be difficult to incorporate them in as source code (i.e., mixing Pascal and C code). If I can reference them as object libraries (e.g., DDLs), that would be great. I need to figure out how to process OGG files from within the program as easily as I do the historical video WMV files.

Any interest in the radio clips we talked about a couple of month ago ?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
2. Sound effects
Jim sent me sample files but I am unable to process the OGG versions. Looking OGG up on the web, I’ve found source listings in C (C++?), but it would be difficult to incorporate them in as source code (i.e., mixing Pascal and C code). If I can reference them as object libraries (e.g., DDLs), that would be great. I need to figure out how to process OGG files from within the program as easily as I do the historical video WMV files.

Any interest in the radio clips we talked about a couple of month ago ?

I'll discuss this with Dave and Erik when we talk next (probably tomorrow). I am worried about copyright issues. If that is not a concern, then I will certainly include some of them, because they are terrific.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: abj9562

Update on the WiF fan site. So far I have sent three requests to Matrix for permission to use copyrighted material in the web site. This is needed due to the material I wish to present for your use. Steve forwarded the original request immediately upon his receipt. I also sent 2 more emails and a request through the Matrix web site on different followup dates. I have not received a response from Matrix yet. There could be many reasons for this from multi company discussions to various legal issues. So I am waiting patiently for a response. I will return from my deployment next week and hopefully will be able to get a start on the site. I will open a thread for dicussion on this topic once I get a formal go ahead from Matrix. Until then they hold the keys....

Are you thinking of tying this into the suggestion that there should be a forum for players to link up for Netplay and PBEM?

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Kitakami

Dates slip, that is unavoidable. When I worked in the software industry we used to have an inside joke: "take the expected time to completion, multiply it by two, and change it to the next higher unit of measuring time; that is the time it will really take to do it well". Thus, 2 days became 4 weeks...

My favorite is:
"What one programmer can do in one month, two programmers can do in two months."

[Sewerlobster]

Once again, I congratulate Steve on his progress and decisions. Bugs ruin a game's reputation, and need to be trimmed as much as possible pre-releaese. The AIO is vital to me, and really -- who's more important than me? [:D]

While I would certainly buy this game w/o AI; an AI-less MWiF would be a business risk. Even if Steve's little survey is wrong and only half of the 53% demand a functioning AIO than the loss of 26% of the potential buyers could make the game unprofitable; and an unprofitable game doesn't get published on purpose -- so we could all lose. Even a delay until December would be okay, to me -- again "the most important" customer.

This begs a few questions. I may have missed it elsewhere, but the progress reports seem to always mention minor country AIO. Are the major country AIO all near ready to be embedded and tested? or are they the last part of this equation? As the word 'testing' implies there will be bug and/or poor execution at first, is the expected completion date a realistic target? I would guess the answer is problamatic in that unforseen problems are so unforseen.

Regardless: the progress, depth and scope of this project are inspiring and I encourage Steve and Matrix to continue on this way. Thank you.

[ptey]

About the postponement, I think the writing was on the wall atleast a month ago. Im glad you didnt choose to release a game almost unplayable due to bugs Steve.

Also, 500 hours for the AI seems low. I suspect it wont be competitive against anyone but a novice. Im fine with that though. Are you willing to share what your aim is here Steve?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: ptey

About the postponement, I think the writing was on the wall atleast a month ago. Im glad you didnt choose to release a game almost unplayable due to bugs Steve.

Also, 500 hours for the AI seems low. I suspect it wont be competitive against anyone but a novice. Im fine with that though. Are you willing to share what your aim is here Steve?

I have a lot to do.[8|] My aim is to get things to work.[:)]

[bfontes]

It looks like Microsoft might be able to get Windows 7 out before this game is ready. So, will the game come with the "Windows 7 Ready" seal of approval?