Allied Strategy ?'s

[88l71]

All right, after a few restarts I'm trying Scen 15 "for real" as Allies. I would like some opinions.

Keep in mind I'm trying to play somewhat similar to historically.

Here's my overall strategy:

Malaya - pull out as much support as possible while using holding Japanese as long as possible in Singapore.

Burma/India - use time bought by forcing enemy to spend time reducing and attritting Singapore to set up a defense in depth in Burma area.

Phillippines - Consolidate defense in Clark/Manila/Bataan area to buy time while pulling out as much aviation assets as possible as PP become avaliable, sending the planes to Australia for defense of N. OZ and S. New Guinea. USN "named" SS will be used for evac'ing cadres (esp of engineer/av support units) from Sing/PI for rebuilding in rear areas.

Aus/S. NG/SouthPac - build up Noumea/PM/E. Australia as major forward bases for air/naval units to halt enemy and counterattack once the S. front stabilizes while also consolidating N. Australia defenses. Build up key areas in South Pacific to secure US-AUS LOC's.

CentPac - Build up massive supplies at Pearl Harbor (getting everything not nailed down out of US W. Coast adn loading up supply/fuel/airgroups/LCU's) for redistribution to Oz/SouthPac, reinforce defenses Midway/Johnston/Wake (provided Wake holds out) and develop Wake/Midway as submarine and air reconnaisance bases.

And now some questions:

1. What to do in Borneo? Defend, and if so should I move everything to the north, where the Japanese will be coming from, or leave LCU's/planes where they are? Or should I pull out and if so is it better to go to AUS or DEI?

2. China I have basically no real strategy here, ditto for NorthPac. What do you grognards usually do in these theaters early game?

3. Supply in India/Burma is not great. Specifically Akyab has size 0(1) port and can only build up to size 4. How then to resupply units in main defensive line since manual says expanding size 0 port takes a long time and I'd have to put a lot of eng in there which will then have to be resupplied and any TF would unload very slowly and possibly be in range of enemy aircraft.

4. I have a lot of units where they are not needed (south, eastern Australia, scattered around in India). What's the most efficient way to move them where I need them?

5. If I route supplies to Sydney will they filter to the rest of the W. Coast bases efficiently or do I have to do it manual?

6. Is it possible to get ground units out of Rabaul before the IJN makes inevitable attack there?

7. Once subs are done evacuating cadres what do you do with them (besides train Japanese ASW) since torps are so ineffective?

8. Brit and Dutch navy - what to do? Send PoW/Repulse + cruisers + DD to DEI or to India and Dutch to AUS? If I try fighting with them will it just end up as replay of the Battle of the Java Sea with me handing IJN free victory points for no return?

9. How to attempt "commerce raiding" in DEI/CBI Theater? Do I need to have my ships react from port or can I sail them somewhere in the open ocean, order them to patrol w/a reasonable reaction range?

10. If I mix say AK and TK into single convoy, can I load the AK's with supplies and TK's with fuel? Appears game interface only lets me choose one or the other. Do I instead have to make a convoy of AK's and another of TK's?

11. If I have a convoy of cargo ships/tankers at a base that can carry more supplies/fuel than are present will the ships sit around until they are full, or will they sail when there is none left at the base?

12. How to best defend DEI? I don't want anything "stuck" there unable to escape but I want to hurt/delay the Japanese as much as possible.

13. When pulling back LCU's to Sing/Clark/Manila should I pull everything back immediately or leave some units where they are for "speed bumps" while my other troops are busy fortifying?

14. If I pull Brit fleet back to India area, what then do I do with it? In PacWar I used to build up Andaman Island early on and use it as a forward base for bombardment/carrier TF's to hit Japs on the Burma coast coordinating with my land attacks, and later to land LCU's in the Japanese rear areas once I went on the offensive, but the Betty is (I hear) highly overpowered in this game so I'm guessing that this won't work?

15. ML's - how to best use these ships? Wouldn't it be better to mine enemy ports with subs which would be less likely to be spotted/killed? If I mine my own bases won't my own ships get hit by mines if I read earlier posts right?

16. Maunal says it takes extra supplies to build airfield/port beyond theoretical maximum, but exactly how much more?

17. Which is less of a PITA, to set auto base expansion ON or OFF?

Opinions welcome, apologies for Stupid n00b questions offered in advance.

-88

[OldCoot]

I'm a relative noob, but here's a couple of ideas:

5. If I route supplies to Sydney will they filter to the rest of the W. Coast bases efficiently or do I have to do it manual?

In the stock game both Perth and Brisbane produce some oil and have resources, so I leave those ports to take care of themselves and send supplies to Sydney.

7. Once subs are done evacuating cadres what do you do with them (besides train Japanese ASW) since torps are so ineffective?

Dispite the defects of the Mark 14 torpedoes, if you set subs to sub patrol you will get some hits. In my present game I am up to 3/15/42 and, to date, Mark 14 torpedoes have sunk 18 Japanese ships and more have been hit but not sunk. Also, subs on patrol provide some recon.

[88l71]

Whoops I meant the EAST coast of Australia.

[ny59giants]

1. What to do in Borneo? Defend, and if so should I move everything to the north, where the Japanese will be coming from, or leave LCU's/planes where they are? Or should I pull out and if so is it better to go to AUS or DEI?

You will soon find out the the Allies are short of Aviation Support throughoutt most of 42 regardless of the game being stock or a mod. I like to get it out and back to Australia onr somewhere else to fill out your TO&E.

2. China I have basically no real strategy here, ditto for NorthPac. What do you grognards usually do in these theaters early game?

If you are playing the AI vs PBEM, then you can do well in both areas. The AI will not land in the Aleutians at all and in stock China is very difficult to defend for the Allies. One of the reasons I moved on to various mods and better maps.

3. Supply in India/Burma is not great. Specifically Akyab has size 0(1) port and can only build up to size 4. How then to resupply units in main defensive line since manual says expanding size 0 port takes a long time and I'd have to put a lot of eng in there which will then have to be resupplied and any TF would unload very slowly and possibly be in range of enemy aircraft.

If the port or AF is 0(0), then you will need massive amounts of engineers and engineer vehicles to build it up to soze one. From one to two takes even longer. As the Allies, its best with about 3 SeaBee battalions. [:D] If you check at Karachi, it should indicate a specific amount of supplies per turn, so the question is moving them - make small TF of AKs, use patrol planes (PBY and Catlinas have a good load), or transport planes.

4. I have a lot of units where they are not needed (south, eastern Australia, scattered around in India). What's the most efficient way to move them where I need them?

If not by rail, then by sea, not by trails.

5. If I route supplies to Sydney will they filter to the rest of the East Coast bases efficiently or do I have to do it manual?

Yes, but the farther you have the AI move them by rail the greater amount of loss you will have. the Allies have plenty of supplies, but try to get them closer (Townville or Brisbane).

6. Is it possible to get ground units out of Rabaul before the IJN makes inevitable attack there?

Yes, either Fast Transport TF or patrol planes set to transport troops. You will need to have the patrol planes set to transport troops there, click on destination, then click on troop pick up. If this part is confusing, ask here again. [;)]

7. Once subs are done evacuating cadres what do you do with them (besides train Japanese ASW) since torps are so ineffective?

I use them to lay mines everywhere. [:D] I form them in 2 or 3 Sub Minelaying TF. Use the largest capacity American Fleet boats (capacity 48) to do evacs.

8. Brit and Dutch navy - what to do? Send PoW/Repulse + cruisers + DD to DEI or to India and Dutch to AUS? If I try fighting with them will it just end up as replay of the Battle of the Java Sea with me handing IJN free victory points for no return?

The more Japanese warships you can sink early, the easier your eventual counter offensive will be. Remember, he doesn't get any more CA and only two more BBs

9. How to attempt "commerce raiding" in DEI/CBI Theater? Do I need to have my ships react from port or can I sail them somewhere in the open ocean, order them to patrol w/a reasonable reaction range?

If you do that too close to a size 4 AF, then Ms Nell/Betty will teach you a valuable lesson. [:-] It is mostly hit and run tactics. Remember, Boise is a bad ass ship that can strike fear into a port lightly escorted transport TF. The rate of fire for those 6" guns is high and she is well armored.

10. If I mix say AK and TK into single convoy, can I load the AK's with supplies and TK's with fuel? Appears game interface only lets me choose one or the other. Do I instead have to make a convoy of AK's and another of TK's?

No. just make two separate TF of TKs and AKsand join them together afetr they are fully loaded. They will unload both when they reach their destination.

11. If I have a convoy of cargo ships/tankers at a base that can carry more supplies/fuel than are present will the ships sit around until they are full, or will they sail when there is none left at the base?

If you formed the TF withourt selecting a destination they will remain in the home. "IF" you select a destination, they will leave a small amount at the base and sail off.

12. How to best defend DEI? I don't want anything "stuck" there unable to escape but I want to hurt/delay the Japanese as much as possible.

A topic that has eaten up a large amount of thread space over the years. you will do a trial and erro method as it depends on your opponent. if the AI, you can do things to force the AI to keep banging her head against the wall. A PBEM opoonent will teach you the normal way - loss of planes, ships, and troops. War is hell!!

13. When pulling back LCU's to Sing/Clark/Manila should I pull everything back immediately or leave some units where they are for "speed bumps" while my other troops are busy fortifying?

Use the terrain to help along with bases. Woods and mtn hexes add 2x or 3x to your defense. Read various AARs to see hwta players do in this area. i don't play on a stock map, so i cannot give you suggestions.

14. If I pull Brit fleet back to India area, what then do I do with it? In PacWar I used to build up Andaman Island early on and use it as a forward base for bombardment/carrier TF's to hit Japs on the Burma coast coordinating with my land attacks, and later to land LCU's in the Japanese rear areas once I went on the offensive, but the Betty is (I hear) highly overpowered in this game so I'm guessing that this won't work?

Against the AI, India will not be invaded, so you can be more aggressive. Against a human player, many will invade India or at least attempt it. To each his own style of fighting the war.

15. ML's - how to best use these ships? Wouldn't it be better to mine enemy ports with subs which would be less likely to be spotted/killed? If I mine my own bases won't my own ships get hit by mines if I read earlier posts right?

You will not hit your own mines. However, your mines will turn against you if a base falls to the enemy.

16. Maunal says it takes extra supplies to build airfield/port beyond theoretical maximum, but exactly how much more?

17. Which is less of a PITA, to set auto base expansion ON or OFF?

OFF - You don't have enough supplies and engineers to do it all. Prioritize is the name of the game.

ENJOY!!

[88l71]

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my over-lengthy cluelessness, NY. I will probably try mod versions at some point but it's bad enough trying to remember all the stuff in the *stock* game without then adding even MORE stuff I have to remember specific to a modded version. So I'll try it (and PBEM) once I get some experience playing "vanilla" WITP against the AI.

[n01487477]

15. ML's - how to best use these ships? Wouldn't it be better to mine enemy ports with subs which would be less likely to be spotted/killed? If I mine my own bases won't my own ships get hit by mines if I read earlier posts right?

You will not hit your own mines. However, your mines will turn against you if a base falls to the enemy.

Really ... never ??? damn I hit them all the time [:@]

[hbrsvl]

88/71- Re your #15. This is not as historical as perhaps you'd like. But if on day one of scen.15, you transport the 2 Aussie Inf. units at Darwin in AKs or APs at full speed, you can get to Rabaul before the enemy. On the same turn, you need to take the 2 New Zealand CLs and rush them to Rabaul. There are some Aussie CAs-CLs on East coast Australia that could go there also. You may lose both, but hold Rabaul.(You get them back 18 months later) Somewhere on the Aussie east coast is their 30th Inf Bge. (Go to the top of screen, click red flag, deselect 'All units", select INF. & scroll down until you find the unit. )It's good for either Rabaul or PM.

I've played this several times. Also get supplies & fighters into Rabaul from PI. Have AKs from PI run down the east coast of New Guiena(SP?), collecting supplies from Hollandia, Wewak, etc. Yes you will lose some to Jap air, but some will get through.

In late Dec.'41-Jan. '42 the Japs will try for Rabaul. You've got an 80/20 chance to hold it.

One other idea. If, again on day 1, you send the 2 US CV TFs to Wake, you should hold there , too.

BTW, when I was in your spot(new to the game), I did just as you are doing. However, by using what I suggested, I've been able to get a Total Allied Victory by mid April '44, without using B-29s or the A bomb.

Hope this helps rather than confuse. Hugh Browne

[erstad]

Re: #10

If you have a mixed TF of AK and TK, if you select "load supply" the AKs load supply and TKs load fuel.

[Yamato hugger]

As an experienced Japanese player, I can safely say as the allied player you have to react to and anticipate the Jap player. Going into a game with a pre-planned "Im going to do this then this then this" will get you beaten.

[AirGriff]

You need to pick some region well forward and commit to defending it, even knowing you will probably lose it eventually...the IJ can take just about anything it wants in '42.  BUT, you can really slow him down by throwing something like a division or even a well supported brigade on Rabaul or Lunga before he gets there in early '42.  What will likely happen is he'll bump into that force with something small and hopefully bounce off.  Then, he'll get his dander up and have to commit some major resources.  This will really slow him down, and that's the name of the game for the allies in '42.  Many people say to convert ak's to support ships right away--like AR's, AD's etc...  I used to do that, but I don't subscribe to that philosophy anymore.  I use every single trasnport I can to move troops forward with a little supply.  Then, on the return trips, I grab a couple of ships out of convoys and convert them. 
 
These returning convoys then pick up more troops, but the focus is on getting lots of supply to the forward bases.  I have learned the hard way that a well supplied brigade or regiment can last longer and fight harder than a poorly supplied division.  I used to think that 10 or 15 thousand supply at a base was fine, so long as the numbers were green.  But air attacks and naval bombardments, especially naval bombardments, will quickly wipe out supply.  When supply goes critical, your units don't repair or reinforce, and once that happens the end is always near.  Keep sending supplies to bases you really want to keep.  Don't stop, even if you get above the level where you get waste penalties. 
 
Fuel is also critical for the allies early on.  Those capital ships use a lot of motion lotion, so plan accordingly. 
 
It pays to be bold in this game, but don't be stupidly bold.  Commit just enough to make him stall out his time schedule, but don't over commit or he'll pop into your interior and you'll have nothing to stop him.  I'm a big believer in getting things forward everywhere you can to form a thin outer defense, then fill in the interior for a hard defense.  The thought being that, yes, he will take what he wants and you'll lose some good stuff, but he can't get it all and certainly not all at once.  So, the places he doesn't hit right away he may get to in a month or two or three, and you can really make a place nasty in that time.  Makes thing a LOT easier when it's your turn to go over to the offensive, too.
 
My final piece of advice, make sure all your bases and units are well stocked with luck.  Can't get enough of that. 

[88l71]

Yamato Hugger -

Thanks for the tip, though I'd argue a mediocre, but flexible plan is better than no plan at all, and simply reacting to the enemy will lead to defeat, especially against a competent opponent.

Griff-

Thanks, though in reality in my game I am mostly pulling back *support* troops (short on aviation sup. nearly everywhere and I need to develop a lot of bases) and leaving many combat units forward to try to get some depth in my defense.

The other reason is a little more prosaic - easier to keep track of units when they are concentrated in a few areas rather than spread out all over the place.

RE fuel: on T1 pretty much every TK and AO I have is loaded with the stuff taking it to collection points.

I'm sure I haven't done everything ideally perfect but this is my first "real" game (against AI, not a human) and I am taking copious notes for future use both on paper, in Word files, and in my just-posted AAR.

The big problems I see for the Allies early game:

1. Units are scattered all over the place. Many, especially vital support units and cargo ships/tankers, are not where they are needed.
2. Lots of territory to defend and (related to #1) inadequate troops to defend said territory in adequate strength.
3. Many low-quality troops, ships, pilots, leaders, and inferior quality aircraft.
4. Plenty of fuel and supplies but long supply lines and once again not where it is needed.

To #1, the obvious solution is to pick a few important locations far enough back from the front lines to concentrate logistics and combat power to prevent them from being destroyed, but close enough to form future defensive bastions/offensive bases of operation.

To #2, space can be traded for time, remembering the saying that "he who defends everywhere defends nowhere" and dovetails nicely with the solution in #1. As the enemy advances there is less territory to defend.

#3 can be remedied as the war goes on. Experience is gained by training/combat and eventually aircraft can be upgraded.

#4 I have a simple rule - never, EVER let an allied AK/TK/AP sit in port unless prepping for invasion or being repaired. Otherwise it should be at sea either carrying supplies/troops/fuel/oil or returning to port to pick up the next load.

[Gibbons]

The last one is the best one. Never have AK/TKs idle. All of them should be working all the time, until system damage demands a couple weeks off. I supply Pearl Harbor, Sydney, Melbourne, and Broome constantly and with as much is available all the time.
Then distribute from those points to where its needed. Noumea to some degree as well.

Also, gather all DDs with antisub ability 6 or over into sub hunting groups of 6-10 (my numbers anyway) and place on east/northeast coast of Australia. They will be in battles with many subs for a year or more.

For troops in places like the Phillipines I let things happen near as possible as happened in the beginning of the war. I don't pull out any troops except fragments on subs, as you noted, and I take them to S.F. and convert to West Coast, where they wait for a year before rebuilding. The Japanese are going to overrun whateve they are going to overrun in Burma/India, etc...so I just put up a decent fight to attrit their units and then pull back to Chandpur and Diamond Harbor. Supplies and fuel flow constantly from Karachi to Colombo, Broome, and Perth.

I try to protect Koepang and Lautern but usually fail, only to retake them in a couple months.

Then its just a waiting game as the U.S. ramps up for war and the tidal wave rises from the eastern Pacific to wash over everything the Japanese had in mind.

I had a months long battle for Port Moresby recently (Aug-Dec 42), where I had just enough troops to keep them from capturing it, but could not get ships there to resupply, so had just enough supplies flown in from Cooktown via C47s to keep the base in minimum supplies. KB swept through the area and wiped out all air power at PM and Lunga a few times, which I didn't like. But now its payback time. B24s have reduced everything in the Solomons and New Guinea to rubble.

Gibbons

[aztez]

I would say that it is better to have flexible plans at start. I have several PBEM's as allies and it is safe to say to they are are diffrent.

First few as an newbie I played safe by not engaging enemy. That is when you want to play it "safe". The downside is that you leave your opponent with free map to go around and exercise his plans.

Currently just playing 1 PBEM vs Grunt and we have just turned into January 1942. Both sides have lost +100 ships already... a lot of surface combats... CV duel around Midway... and several transport TF bombarded via air and sea. I don't know how his plans are coming around but personally I'am happy with the situation. This type of an opening is what I meant by flexible strategy. If oppurtunity rises and you calculate the risk than I would say go for it. It is not the allies who are losing vital assets in longterm when you think battle of attrition.

Even these high losses I'am happy that those ships went down guns blazing rather than just sitting around some dock/harbour and waiting for the enemy.

... either way.. you can be cautious or aggressive. Your main strategy should be decieded within the first few weeks of the game. After that you just stick to it and grind on forward.

Good luck!

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: 88l71

Yamato Hugger -

Thanks for the tip, though I'd argue a mediocre, but flexible plan is better than no plan at all, and simply reacting to the enemy will lead to defeat, especially against a competent opponent.

Actually, I dont agree. And I dont agree with the person that said stuff a division into Rabul. All you are doing is feeding the Jap player points. Any good Jap player has a line that he plans to hold. How fast he takes this line is moot. Nothing the allied player does is going to stop him from getting to this line. So why even try? The more stuff you get out the fewer points the Jap player gets.

Somewhere along the line the allies will come back. Doesnt matter how far the Japs pushed out. The further out the Japs go, the less they have to defend with and the faster the allies will re-take it. So save your points and wait. Nothing frustrates a Jap player more than not knowing where the other guy is. When the Jap gets frustrated, thats when he makes a mistake (same goes for the allied player, but the allies can recover from mistakes easier).

[engineer]

Some comments:
 
1)  Allied Minelaying:  You have a number of minelayers at the start but only a few Level 9 ports that can restock the minelayers.  Delay laying the mines you have until the last moment (so they don't attrit before the Japanese show up), then use the mine layers for fast transport to help spirit those aviation support squads out.  Once they're back to Oz or India or Noumea you can use them to help build up your defenses against the Japanese "High Tide" offensive.  Where to lay the mines?  Mersing and Palembang are good spots. 
 
2)  What do with US "named" subs:  I haven't had much luck with them on patrol, though once the Kirishima was torpedoed while the KB was heading home from Pearl.  You can do sub minelaying to create nuisances around Japanese ports.  USS Argonaut was designed as sub minelayer and is especially good in this role. 
 
3)  Is this human or AI as the opponent?  Like Yamato hugger, I think a Jap player will take Rabaul if he really wants it regardless of the early game defense, but the Rabaul gambit has a decent chance against AI.  The AI seems to have expectations on the likely force level at various objectives.  If you are facing AI, it won't cut the retreat route from Rabaul so you can use subs to evacuate the ANZAC battalions to PM or OZ to rebuild. 
 
3A)  Based on the expectations that the AI has (if you're playing AI), using your political points to free up forces and put an extra battalion someplace to put a temporary reverse on the AI can pay real dividends in busting up the AI's strategy.  This is still worthwhile against a human opponent, but they'll adapt more readily. 
 
4)  The advice on keeping AK's moving is good.   Early on you want to use the British shipping to build up stockpiles in Bengal.  If Burma falls you'll have a surplus of shipping in the Indian Ocean since the Japanese can make the Bay of Bengal untenable for merchants, and you never have enough shipping in the Pacific.  Send some surplus freighters around Oz with more supplies and then put them to work out of the West Coast. 
 
5)  POW & Repulse:  Fighting off Khotu Bharu is a death sentence, and the historical result.  Running away is safe.  The POW makes a really fine fast carrier escort with it's flak.  Bold but not rash is to send the AVG to Singapore to provide cover for at least the first couple weeks of the war.  Keep the capital ships under their cover until the Japanese try to land at Kuantan or Mersing.  Then sortie to bust up those invasions.  (Bring your Dutch PT's forward, too).  You can maul the Hiei and the Haruna and if you're lucky a Dutch or British sub will finish her off while she limps back to Saigon at 5 knots.   If they're lucky enough not to get sunk en route back to Singapore, then get them back to Bombay for repair. Once Singapore falls, and/or the KB does their Java Sea tour, your down to haggling the price for the Japanese to take the SRA. 
 
6)  British Fleet:  It seems to me this is mostly a "fleet in being threat".  A human player will either send the KB a hunting or at least have to honor the threat by deploying Betty/Nell squadrons plus some surface power back-up. 
 
7)  "Gamey" evacuations:  If an LCU is 100% destroyed, then it's gone.  If you have a fragment and the parent units is destroyed, then the fragment becomes the kernal for a new unit that will rebuild over time.  You can rescue kernals from the Philippines and generate some nice rear area garrisons in the PA or even rescuing some fragments of US LCU's from Luzon.  If you're careful, you can even evacuate some units out of Luzon by sea with a bit of luck. 

[John Lansford]

In my grand campaign game, the AI inexplicably left Eniwetok ungarrisoned after I fought off the Wake Island invasion attempt.  I occupied it in early January 42 with several base units and an LCU, and now (8/42) have a massive thorn in the middle of the Japanese defense perimeter.   The IJN has attempted to resupply Kwajalein several times now, all at a heavy cost in DD's and supply ships to my LBA and subs basing out of Eniwetok.  I just staged an invasion of Ponape from there and now Kwajalein is completely isolated.
 
In the SWPac, the AI has never tried for Kandari and Balikpapan, although the KB goes cruising by about once a month to bomb the facilities.  Balikpapan and its adjacent base are still mine and a PITA for the IJN base at Tawi Tawi and further north on Borneo; even my Martin bombers are getting hits now the pilots have 75+ experience.  I also control all of Timor and the bases there are major airfields, and I keep getting oil from Amboina and Sorong as well.

[Yamato hugger]

Well, IMHO talking about beating up on the AI is like telling about how you took ice cream from a 3 year old [:D]

[engineer]

Yamato hugger:
Well, IMHO talking about beating up on the AI is like telling about how you took ice cream from a 3 year old [:D]

 
Once you're up the learning curve that's very true.  My current game involved playing the Japs until the beginning of September 1942, capturing the Hawaiian Islands, sinking the US CV's, and getting the score up to about 5.9:1.  Then I switched to the allies and the race is to see if I can drive the points back below 4:1 by year end. 

 

[John Lansford]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Well, IMHO talking about beating up on the AI is like telling about how you took ice cream from a 3 year old [:D]

No doubt for someone who's played WitP multiple times, but as I said, this is my first campaign game and I wanted to see how everything played out. Besides, I need something to do until AE comes out.