PT Boats

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montesaurus
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PT Boats

Post by montesaurus »

Is it me, or do PT Boats seem to be inordinately powerful for how many VP's they are worth? It seems pointless to attack them with DD's where invariably I'll sink 1-2 PT Boats before they break off, but not before one of my DD's take at least 1 torpedo in the guts. If it doesn't sink, then I have a 10 point ship out of commision for repairs for 6 months, for the gain of 2 points for sinking a stinking PT boat.
Will this be addressed in the Admiral's edition or will these boats always be there to unbalance things!
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stuman
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RE: PT Boats

Post by stuman »

I am almost convinced that in stock given enough PT boats you could take over the world.
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jwilkerson
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RE: PT Boats

Post by jwilkerson »

ORIGINAL: montesaurus

Will this be addressed in the Admiral's edition or will these boats always be there to unbalance things!

The backroom AE bashings over the PT boat issue is going on as we type!
[:D]

Actually in stock, I don't even find it worth it to attack them with airplanes. Sonias or most other planes can take them out - but the PTs seem to be able to shoot down more planes than PT sunk by the planes. The only solution I've found in stock is to stay away from them unless there is an extremely lucrative target around.

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montesaurus
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RE: PT Boats

Post by montesaurus »

It's very frustrating! I feel like I'm dealing with "McHale's Navy" !

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John Lansford
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RE: PT Boats

Post by John Lansford »

In my stock WitP game I've got PT boats defending Balikpapan and a couple other Borneo ports in 5/42.  The AI has sent a few token invasion TF's to Balikpapan but every time my heroic PT squadrons sink or drive off the transports.  They did manage to land a portion of an armored unit but my dug in garrison and base units starved them out.
 
I keep expecting the AI to send a cruiser/destroyer squadron in and wipe out my PT boats, but so far nothing like that has been attempted.
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AW1Steve
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RE: PT Boats

Post by AW1Steve »

The Japanese absolutely hated PT boats (probably in part due to their own torpedo excellence, and they were afraid of the danger of working American torpedo's). They might have in reality have been a "Giant-killer" had aggressive and appropriate tactics been used. When you consider how cheap they were , yet they carried 1/2 of a destroyers "main battery" (it's torpedo's), it had tremendous potential.
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ny59giants
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RE: PT Boats

Post by ny59giants »

Many players use Zeros on Naval Attack at 100' to get rid of them.
Choice two is a SC TF with a CL and about 4 DDs.
A funny thing is to watch a PT get hit with over 20 5" shells from a DD before it sinks. A piece of Swiss cheese has less holes. [:D]
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engineer
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RE: PT Boats

Post by engineer »

I'm having good success with ny59giants' Zero strategy.  The AI is using PT's to screen Pearl Harbor while I've built up Lahaina as my siege base to reduce the Oahu defenses.  The first surface battle saw six DD's take on six PT's.  Two PT's sunk and four destroyers disabled for months.  For a couple of weeks I kept a couple Zero units on 100' naval attack and attrited about a half dozen PT's away.  I use Betty's and Kates to hit the airfields and Sally's to hit the port from about 18k to 20k feet so I'm safely above most of the flak.  I've sunk another 4-6 PT's from the port attacks.  Since Pearl has been blockaded for months, their supplies are too low to spawn fresh PTs to replace the losses.  Now I'm running in bombardment TF's with a 1 CL, 4 DD SC TF leading the way to make sure Yamato doesn't get a nasty surprise.
Oldguard1970
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RE: PT Boats

Post by Oldguard1970 »

It's 31 Jan 1942, Scen 15, Stock 1.806.  Over the past three days I have had three surface engagements with torpedo boats.  I lost all engaged torpedo boats (three PTs and four Dutch TMs.)  I got one shell hit in return.
 
In each of the three engagements, I only had small forces, (two PTs, four TMs and finally one PT).  Each time I engaged heavy surface forces (about 10 warships).  (Not the best correlation of forces...)
 
Earlier in the war, I had a couple of engagments with six PTs in the TF.  I got some torpedo hits in those engagements before all the torpedo boats sank. 
 
They are good, but I'd be happy to trade them for an equal point value of Betties.
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engineer
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RE: PT Boats

Post by engineer »

One other point in recalling my PT engagements is night vs. day, literally.  Almost of the fighting I've seen for surface actions is night battle, sometimes opening as close a 2000 yards where my IJN destroyers have taken critical hits from a 0.50 caliber machine gun that penetrated the hull!  One time the destoyers caught the PT's in daylight at about 18,000 yards and it was ahistorically the other way where the Japanese slaughtered the PTs while remaining out of range of their weapons.  I would expect a 40 knot PT could stay out of harm's way with evasive maneuvers at that range just due to the time of flight of the shell fire. 
Cathartes
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RE: PT Boats

Post by Cathartes »

In AE, it just takes one Japanese naval shell to obliterate a PT Boat.  No mores sponges, no more swiss cheese.
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AirGriff
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RE: PT Boats

Post by AirGriff »

Glad to hear it's being addressed in AE.  In my current pbem, we had to come to an agreement on how to use them (I'm allied).  I agreed to not send them out after large warships.  Transports and small warships are fair game.  I do use them to defend my own bases, so if he wants to send large warships in, then they take the risk.  I also agreed to not upgrade the older PT's I have.  The upgrade gives them radar, and I hear they are incredibly effective with it. 
 
Personally, I don't have a huge issue with them.  When they engaged surface combat TF's earlier in our game, the PT's never seemed to score on any big ships, but they did nail more than a few destroyers.  I think this makes sense.  The PT's would usually end up bumping into the destroyer screen first and end up in a knife fight with those guys.  I understand other folks have had some wild tales to tell (I remember reading something about a battleship getting beat up by PT's), so our house rules guard against that.
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anarchyintheuk
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RE: PT Boats

Post by anarchyintheuk »

It never takes 20 5' rounds to sink a PT, only takes 1. It's just that the combat program doesn't register the target as sunk after the first hit only after the round is over. It does seem to calculate speed reduction, because it get easier to hit during the round.
montesaurus
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RE: PT Boats

Post by montesaurus »

Just another update!
I had a Japanese Bombardment fleet smack Ndini with 3 BB's, a few CA's,CL's, and DD's for a total of 15 ships! Ran up against a PT Squadron of about 8 and surprised them. Sank two PT boats before they ran off!
But, the second round I encountered another PT Group. Score Japs 0 and PT boats put two torpedo's into the BB Haruna!
The Japanese naval command is now paralyzed into inactivity till the PT boats can be dealt with, or till the Admiral's edition comes out!
To heck with the Yamato, give me 5oo points of PT boats and I'll rule the Pacific!
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rtrapasso
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RE: PT Boats

Post by rtrapasso »

ORIGINAL: montesaurus

Just another update!
I had a Japanese Bombardment fleet smack Ndini with 3 BB's, a few CA's,CL's, and DD's for a total of 15 ships! Ran up against a PT Squadron of about 8 and surprised them. Sank two PT boats before they ran off!
But, the second round I encountered another PT Group. Score Japs 0 and PT boats put two torpedo's into the BB Haruna!
The Japanese naval command is now paralyzed into inactivity till the PT boats can be dealt with, or till the Admiral's edition comes out!
To heck with the Yamato, give me 5oo points of PT boats and I'll rule the Pacific!
IRL - the Japanese did NOT put major surface units into areas where they knew there were PT boats*... just as they didn't try to go up against Land Based Air with major naval units... the fact the players of WITP do, get clobbered, and then moan about the results and claim they are not realistic says more about the players (and their mindset) than it does about the realism of the game, imo.

BTW, even the US BBs got very nervous when they realized that they were liable to PT attack - or at least "Ching" Lee did when he picked up chatter on the TBS between PTs contemplating an attack on his BBs.

*not sure, but i don't think that the IJN KNEW that there were PTs in Surigao Straights.

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marky
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RE: PT Boats

Post by marky »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Many players use Zeros on Naval Attack at 100' to get rid of them.
Choice two is a SC TF with a CL and about 4 DDs.
A funny thing is to watch a PT get hit with over 20 5" shells from a DD before it sinks. A piece of Swiss cheese has less holes. [:D]

yeah but swiss cheese isnt as well made [:D]
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