Looking for a Map of WW2 Eastern Europe

[vahauser]

Deos anybody have or know where I can get a map of Eastern Europe (including European USSR) at 15km per hex?

[golden delicious]

If you're designing a serious project you'll probably find any pre-existing maps disappointing. You may be better off making your own.

[vahauser]

Golden_Delicious,
 
I'll be getting my hands on a great map of Eastern Europe at the 25km scale soon, but I think the 15km scale (1/2-week turns) is ideal.  My best option at this point seems to be to try and convert the 7.5km "Barbarossa Tactical" map to 15km.  [Yeah.  Good luck with that...]

[ColinWright]

ORIGINAL: vahauser

Golden_Delicious,

I'll be getting my hands on a great map of Eastern Europe at the 25km scale soon, but I think the 15km scale (1/2-week turns) is ideal.  My best option at this point seems to be to try and convert the 7.5km "Barbarossa Tactical" map to 15km.  [Yeah.  Good luck with that...]

My experience with that sort of thing wasn't encouraging. You can try it, of course.

[Silvanski]

Which area exactly do you want to see covered? At 15 KM I doubt there's not much to pick from

[vahauser]

Silvanski,
 
I'm looking for the area roughly bounded by (Danzig/West, Viipuri/North, Gorkiy/East, Astrakhan/South)
 
I'm toying with the idea for two separate, but related scenarios. 
#1 June 1941-Dec 1941, The Axis Invasion (I'll come up with a better title).
#2 June 1944-Dec 1944, The Soviet Juggernaut (I'll come up with a better title).
 
The idea is that the same player plays Germany in both scenarios while his opponent plays the Soviets in both scenarios (thus, both players are simultaneously faced with glorious offensive opportunities as well as horrible defensive nightmares).
 
I think that 15km and 1/2-week is the best scale (about 50 turns per scenario).  But, 25km and 1-week scale would work pretty well, I guess (if that's the only scale I can get a good map). 
 
Anyway, if you have any ideas where I can get a good 15km map of the area outlined above, please let me know.

[Silvanski]

As far as I can tell there are only 10 and 20/25 KM maps... If you decide to go for the 20/25 KM scale you can clip and modify the big one of Europa 1947. That one has seen many modifications from the Wahlberg original via Piero via myself

[vahauser]

Silvanski,
 
I've downloaded Europa 1947 and am looking at the map.  Interesting.
 
I'm also interested in looking at the extra equipments you added.  Unfortunately, the link you provided to the photoalbum of new equipments gets re-directed into nowhere, which sucks. 
 
Can you post a list of the new equipments used in Europa 1947?  Thanks.

[Silvanski]

ORIGINAL: vahauser

Silvanski,

I've downloaded Europa 1947 and am looking at the map.  Interesting.

I'm also interested in looking at the extra equipments you added.  Unfortunately, the link you provided to the photoalbum of new equipments gets re-directed into nowhere, which sucks. 

Can you post a list of the new equipments used in Europa 1947?  Thanks.

this is the correct link
http://forums.gamesquad.com/album.php?albumid=8

[vahauser]

Silvanksi,

Thanks! You should have included the USAF B-36 and the Soviet MiG-15 in your scenario, though. Both were in production during the 1947-1950 time period of your scenario.

The B-36 carried a 72,000lb bomb load over a range of 6,000 miles and was the largest piston engined warplane ever built.

The MiG-15 was possibly the best combat fighter in the world (except perhaps the USAF F-86) during the time period of Europa 1947 and was built in enormous numbers. As many as 18,000 were built (including licensed exports) during its production run.

Below is a picture taken in 1946 of a B-29 and a B-36.

[Addendum: Personally, I don't like including strategic weapons in an operational game. I believe that only tactical support weapons should be included. This would mean that the MiG-15 is more important tactically and operationally. But since you have included other strategic weapons (which I would remove and replace with tactical-support weapons), then the B-36 should also be included.]

[Silvanski]

ORIGINAL: vahauser

Silvanksi,

Thanks! You should have included the USAF B-36 and the Soviet MiG-15 in your scenario, though.

Thanks for pointing out these birds. They may be included. The Allied airforce needs to be looked into more cuz they have trouble wretching AS from the Luftwaffe and its partner airforces

[vahauser]

Silvanski,
 
I was incorrect.  Europa 1947 actually does have MiG-15s, but they are German and not Soviet.  Huh??

[Silvanski]

ORIGINAL: vahauser

Silvanski,

I was incorrect.  Europa 1947 actually does have MiG-15s, but they are German and not Soviet.  Huh??

Que??[X(]
Do you have the latest version and its equipment file installed?
http://forums.gamesquad.com/downloads.p ... le&id=1860

[vahauser]

Silvanski,
 
You are correct.  I didn't have the Europa 1947 v3.3 .eqp file loaded in the editor.  But now there is a new problem.  The v3.3 .eqp file overwrites the Soviet MiG-15 with the German Ta-183.  This means that the Soviet MiG-15 has been deleted and replaced by the Ta-183 in the v3.3 .eqp file.  So, if you want to have MiG-15s in your game (and I think you should), then you will have to move the Ta-183 someplace else.

[Silvanski]

I've currently got an update on the shelf with Soviet jets

[BillLottJr]

ORIGINAL: vahauser

Silvanski,

You are correct.  I didn't have the Europa 1947 v3.3 .eqp file loaded in the editor.  But now there is a new problem.  The v3.3 .eqp file overwrites the Soviet MiG-15 with the German Ta-183.  This means that the Soviet MiG-15 has been deleted and replaced by the Ta-183 in the v3.3 .eqp file.  So, if you want to have MiG-15s in your game (and I think you should), then you will have to move the Ta-183 someplace else.

The premise of Europa 1947 is a German victory in WWII, so the Soviets don't get the services of captured German aircraft designers with their new-fangled swept wing fighter designs. The Soviets get some jets, but not the MiG-15 (which I believe was a development of the TA-183 design).

[vahauser]

Bill II,
 
The initial premise is interesting.  However, military secrets are notoriously hard to keep and the British and Soviet intelligence networks of the time were extremely effective.  Further, there would be defections once the horror of a Nazi victory fully set in.
 
I have no problem with the initial premise.  But by 1947, the Allies and the Soviets would know pretty much everything the Germans know.  Further, as has been pointed out in other places, the "winners" usually get complacent and overconfident.  The Germans historically suffered from this in 1939-1941 when they did not advance many of their programs or their industrial capacity since they did not feel the need to do so (they war was already over from their perspective, which gave them zero incentive to develop a 'total war' posture, and this is historical fact for which they paid the ultimate price).  But the Soviets and the Allies did not grow complacent.  They did the exact opposite. 

[ColinWright]

ORIGINAL: vahauser

Bill II,

The initial premise is interesting.  However, military secrets are notoriously hard to keep and the British and Soviet intelligence networks of the time were extremely effective.  Further, there would be defections once the horror of a Nazi victory fully set in.

I have no problem with the initial premise.  But by 1947, the Allies and the Soviets would know pretty much everything the Germans know.  Further, as has been pointed out in other places, the "winners" usually get complacent and overconfident.  The Germans historically suffered from this in 1939-1941 when they did not advance many of their programs or their industrial capacity since they did not feel the need to do so (they war was already over from their perspective, which gave them zero incentive to develop a 'total war' posture, and this is historical fact for which they paid the ultimate price).  But the Soviets and the Allies did not grow complacent.  They did the exact opposite. 

I'd differ with much that Vahauser says here in detail -- but he is right about one thing.

It's hard to see that late-war efflorescence of German jet fighter designs in a world in which Germany has won the war. Even if one assumes the same design effort, it would be aimed in other directions.

[Silvanski]

ORIGINAL: Bill II
The premise of Europa 1947 is a German victory in WWII, so the Soviets don't get the services of captured German aircraft designers

Agree, but downed aircraft may provide insight in jet technology

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: vahauser

Bill II,

The initial premise is interesting.  However, military secrets are notoriously hard to keep and the British and Soviet intelligence networks of the time were extremely effective.  Further, there would be defections once the horror of a Nazi victory fully set in.

Would there? The Germans seem to have been pretty content with the way things were going until it became apparent that the war was going to be lost. Further, Germany's worst excesses were arguably a response to the increasingly dire situation at the front.

But by 1947, the Allies and the Soviets would know pretty much everything the Germans know.

I'm not sure about that. Aircraft design isn't just about knowing concepts and equations.

Further, as has been pointed out in other places, the "winners" usually get complacent and overconfident.

That's OK. The designs the Germans were putting out in 1945 would have been perfectly capable of squaring off against whatever the allies could produce in most fields by 1947.

Your related point is more worthy. Depending on the timeline, German production might never have risen above 1942 levels. This will obviously cause them problems if they find themselves faced with a major land campaign, but I don't see how Soviet Russia would be allowed to continue its existence, so there will be no major land campaign.