Correct Me If I'm Wrong

From the legendary team at 2 by 3 Games comes a new grand strategy masterpiece: Gary Grigsby’s War Between the States. Taking gamers back to the American Civil War, this innovative grand strategy game allows players to experience the trials and tribulations of the role of commander-in-chief for either side. Historically accurate, detailed and finely balanced for realistic gameplay, War Between the States is also easy to play and does not take months to finish.

Moderators: Joel Billings, PyleDriver

Post Reply
User avatar
New York Jets
Posts: 628
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2001 8:00 am
Location: St. Louis, MO but stuck in Bremerton,WA

Correct Me If I'm Wrong

Post by New York Jets »

...and I'm sure everyone will.

I'm returning after a long time away from game and I have noticed something I may be missing.

Are thre no rules for foreign intervention? Or, am I just overlooking them?
"There comes a time in every man's life, and I've had plenty of 'em."

- Casey Stengel -
YohanTM2
Posts: 986
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 5:43 am
Location: Toronto

RE: Correct Me If I'm Wrong

Post by YohanTM2 »

None, the designers felt it was historically unrealistic (and probably rightly so historically but it would have been a fun option)
User avatar
Doc o War
Posts: 345
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: Northern California

RE: Correct Me If I'm Wrong

Post by Doc o War »

Chris- look back a few threds to the British Intervention thread- - which was the repost/ reopening of the same thread from last year- this question has been covered in a lot of detail in those threads. I especially like the analysis from the British guy that said the Brits at best could put together about 15,000 men as an expeditionary force at the time- they were just too spread thin- (the Empire) especially India and Africa- which were the wealth generators at the time- needed large garrisons. Stripping them was NOT an option.
 
The arrrival of 7 Brit strength points would not effect much, if they could have gotten past the US NAvy- which would have been no small feat- and been very very expensive. and the Brit Navy was not willing to take on the American Navy- they actually were more worried about the French Navys new Iron Clad- the Glorie.  The Iron Clads they had were all in the Channel watching the French-
and Queen Victoria would NEVER have sided with the Slave states- that is also absolutely clear. There is only so much "what if"  one can do against the historic model. Anything else is fantasy. If you were to allow a 100,000 man British Force to suddenly appear when they really couldnt do that without declaring a major war- then why not the USA suddenly invent the Airplane or the Zepplin and bomb them, or a submarine force, or a magazine fed bolt action weapon - or even a machine gun- as we are then in total sci fi what if- and that isnt what the game designers are after- they are looking to model closely the actual war.
Tell me the story of the common foot soldier, and I will tell you the story of all wars.
... Heroditus.
Mike Parker
Posts: 578
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:43 am
Location: Houston TX

RE: Correct Me If I'm Wrong

Post by Mike Parker »

Well Doc I wouldn't go so far as to say British or French intervention is as far-fetched as airplanes or machione guns.
 
I have played plenty of Civ War games that had foreign intervention, I don't think this game suffers because of its lack, it might even be better.  I agree it was a good decision not to have it, at least not with boots on the ground at least.
 
User avatar
Doc o War
Posts: 345
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: Northern California

RE: Correct Me If I'm Wrong

Post by Doc o War »

If you read the British Intervention thread a few threads ago we talked about this. I think the most telling aspect was Queen Victoria- the Brits banned Slavery in the 1830s- early in her reign- and a generation of Brits had been born and raised under her leadership seeing anti slavery as a major theme of this queen. She was not even a bit gray about this issue- In the movie Gettysburg there is a scene where Generals Longstreet and Pickett discuss British Intervention- and the Pragmatic Longstreet is right- the whole idea was a dreamy hope- mostly thin air- on the part mainly of the Southerners- for Victoria would NEVER  have condonned British Soldiers and Saliors dying to support a slave state- that is fact. She had real power also- her word was really law- much more so then in these modern times.
 
As for civ war games that allow brit intervention- or even french- I played them back in the day- and they were not based on any real reserach- just made up amounts of troops that would be available- In truth the Brits( and th efrench- who could barely support their war in Mexico) did not have the available manpower- they would have had to strip the colonies.  While perhaps a fun sci fi level idea- it just cannot be supported in any realistic way.  The key reason was Victoria above all- she was in 1861- the most powerful woman on the planet. Perhaps the most powerful woman in history in net effect. The clothes she wore set fashion, what she read became best sellers, what she did and said were world wide news. She would not have done it- period..Shellby Foote- I think it was?- said the only ones who thought this was really a possibility - were the southerners. And I would say- that has become more myth than reality.
Tell me the story of the common foot soldier, and I will tell you the story of all wars.
... Heroditus.
User avatar
Treefrog
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:11 am

RE: Correct Me If I'm Wrong

Post by Treefrog »

Seems to me that by letting the southern cotton be blockaded the Brits set the stage for development of their own cotton growing industry in India. Who knows, maybe that was intentional; do you think?
"L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace."
User avatar
New York Jets
Posts: 628
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2001 8:00 am
Location: St. Louis, MO but stuck in Bremerton,WA

RE: Correct Me If I'm Wrong

Post by New York Jets »

I'm not questioning the history. I agree, for a variety of reasons, that the chance of British/French intervention was nil.

I am a returning owner who has not even looked at this game in quite awhile and was wondering if I missed something in the rules.
"There comes a time in every man's life, and I've had plenty of 'em."

- Casey Stengel -
Post Reply

Return to “Gary Grigsby's War Between the States”